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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 11:38am
Originally posted by Simon Lovesey

Not clear where the number of 700 has come from,  perhaps data from previous races,  but as we have seen with foiling Moths PY struggles with boats that have wide performance characteristics depending on conditions.

That's the nub of it...  but 700 is a bit of joke if the RC were aiming for an equitable position.  I suspect it's deliberately designed to ensure that the sailboards can extract their sub set from the bottom of the table where they are not influencing the top 3/4 of the dinghy entries.  

The last time I raced a board against a dinghy I was running off 1080, which I felt was fair enough given my novice status - it wasn't a raceboard though, and I suspect quite considerably off the pace with a well-sailed Techno with a skinny kid on it.


Edited by kneewrecker - 01 Sep 14 at 11:49am
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 11:39am
There are some weird things going on there, they've split their website into two, so you can't get the old results, it's probably the same old Cat politics that gave rise to the Cat club all those years ago, you know what cat sailors are like..

Edited by iGRF - 01 Sep 14 at 11:42am
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Posts: 115 		Post Options Post Options   Quote James Bell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 12:27pm
Just to clarify the situation re: websites, the current committee of the IOS Sailing Club, requested at very short notice in July that I dissociate the website I built promoting the club from representing the club, which meant a number of pages had to be removed on a temporary basis. It's now an independent website ('IOS Sailing Community') promoting sailing on Sheppey, and still also providing one of the earliest, and most popular free weather cam services in the South East.

From 2002 - 2012 sailboards were scored on elapsed time only and kept completely separate from the dinghy & cat results. It's unclear why the decision was taken to include them in the main results this year. I've now had time to update & re-instate the archive of results on the original website (www.iossc.org.uk).

A long time ago in the 80s, the windsurfers used to be scored according to Divisions (and were sometimes allocated a PY of 1000), but when I consulted the local windsurfers in 2002, they said most of the old sailboard categories had disappeared, and they recommended the only approach that made sense now was simply to score them separately on elapsed time only.

(Race Coordinator 2002-2011).



Edited by James Bell - 01 Sep 14 at 12:45pm
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Neal_g View Drop Down
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Posts: 323 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neal_g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 1:05pm
or how about the laser 2000 with a 20 point increase on its handicap from the py list making it 1120. it definitely wasnt in the fast fleet start me thinks they have saved an hour off there elapsed time. gifting them 6th place


Edited by Neal_g - 01 Sep 14 at 1:08pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 1:11pm
Could easily be a scoring error, goodness knows its easily done, but you sound as if you are blaming the sailors for that...
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Posts: 323 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neal_g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 1:19pm
its not blame its an observation.
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 2:11pm
That sounds like the old no-spinnaker Laser 2000 PY from 2009!  

My, they are behind the times - unless, of course the boat was actually sailed without a kite, in which case 1120 may have been a little harsh compared to 1100 with kite.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 9:53pm
Well I've had a very nice reply back from the commodore of IOSSC and apparently they got their intel from this.
They got it from Wikipedia.
Racing against other sailing craft
Racing against other windsurfer types and boat type is possible using a handicap system. The most widely recognised handicap system in the world is the Portsmouth Yardstick. Formula boards commonly sail with a handicap equivalent to the 18foot skiff. Currently this is a handicap of 685. Although not a lot of racing between Formula boards and other sailing classes has taken place at the international level; in an event in San Francisco in 2003, Formula sailor Micah Buzianis (USA-34) beat the world's best kiteboarders and 18 ft Skiff sailors in the Ronstan Bridge-to-Bridge race, showing the speed of Formula boards against some of the fastest racing craft in sailing.
Not much I can do to argue really, the windsurf community are not organised well enough and having ourselves represented by bloody Formula is bad enough, I'm going to have to think about what to do, they've agreed to trial whatever we come up with next year.
Nice guy even though he sails a CAT.
I can see I'm going to have to start engaging with this mess and post some sailboard times on the RYA thing either that or get my rival SBRHS formula finished.
As if I haven't got enough to do.
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 10:05pm
Formula board on a point to point race... In 2003.

I see none of them were troubling Johnny Heineken on his foiling kiteboard last year. Gotta love Wikipedia....
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 14 at 1:12am
700 is ridiculous.

Down here in Oz we have the following board yardsticks;


International Raceboard(Flat bottom planing boards) 7.5 max sail = yardstick 97 (lightweight sailors) 99 (heavyweight sailors)

Division II Round bottom, displacement boards open class 7.3 max sail 102 (LW) 104 (HW)

Division II Funboards pre 1987 7.3 max 107 (LW) 110 (HW). Note - there is no such thing as a "Division II Funboard"; I think it means Division 1.

Open Class 93 (HW and LW)

Windsurfer one design 6.5 max 112 (LW) 116 (HW)

Junior under 16 any board 6.5 max 115

Under 13 years any board 5.5 max 127

Weight is the sailor's dry weight fully equipped including harness and safety gear. Heavy weight is greater than 81 cgs. In wind strengths consistently over Force 4 (15 knots) the yardstick for heavyweight sailors shall be the same as the yardstick for lightweight sailors.

For interclub racing among boards, we have put the RSX at around 100 and the Techno at 116, I think. We also tend to ignore the sailor weight issue for simplicity, and average the yardsticks for the two weight classes. The Div II board is obviously rated too slowly. FWIW after our testing I'd put a Kona One on the same handicap as the Windsurfer One Design. I think the FW board is rated near the Moth and 49er but in non-planing winds it could be rated slower than the Opti.

For comparison, the old-rules IC is 93.5 (ouch!), the Musto 94, B14 94.4, 29er 96.5, 505 97.5, Laser 113 and Radial 116. In general the numbers seem to provide a pretty reasonable and accurate comparison of overall performance between the boards and the boats. 

The performance of the boards does vary enormously depending on wind strength and angle, and whether it's a course where you can foot off into a knock or have to sail high into lifts due to geographic features. The real issue, though, is pumping - when you have a class like the Raceboards that allows unrestricted pumping the boards can beat just about anything in the right conditions; how do you rate a class that can move at several knots in a dead calm?

About the "they shouldn't have let her enter with that handicap" point - the issue is that experience proves that NOT letting someone race because they don't have a reliable handicap causes just as many complaints as letting them race and giving them a dodgy handicap. 


Edited by Chris 249 - 02 Sep 14 at 1:20am
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