Fair Play?

International Raceboard(Flat bottom planing boards) 7.5 max sail = yardstick 97 (lightweight sailors) 99 (heavyweight sailors)

   So let them race scratch, for an overall result, and use the times to start to get an idea of what the handicap should be next time.

Author	Message Share Topic Printable Version Delicious Digg Facebook Furl Google MySpace Newsvine reddit StumbleUpon Translate Twitter Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic
Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Fair Play? Posted: 02 Sep 14 at 7:57am
	So let them race scratch, for an overall result, and use the times to start to get an idea of what the handicap should be next time.
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

Chris 249 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041	Post Options Post Reply Quote Chris 249 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Sep 14 at 1:12am
	700 is ridiculous. Down here in Oz we have the following board yardsticks; International Raceboard(Flat bottom planing boards) 7.5 max sail = yardstick 97 (lightweight sailors) 99 (heavyweight sailors) Division II Round bottom, displacement boards open class 7.3 max sail 102 (LW) 104 (HW) Division II Funboards pre 1987 7.3 max 107 (LW) 110 (HW). Note - there is no such thing as a "Division II Funboard"; I think it means Division 1. Open Class 93 (HW and LW) Windsurfer one design 6.5 max 112 (LW) 116 (HW) Junior under 16 any board 6.5 max 115 Under 13 years any board 5.5 max 127 Weight is the sailor's dry weight fully equipped including harness and safety gear. Heavy weight is greater than 81 cgs. In wind strengths consistently over Force 4 (15 knots) the yardstick for heavyweight sailors shall be the same as the yardstick for lightweight sailors. For interclub racing among boards, we have put the RSX at around 100 and the Techno at 116, I think. We also tend to ignore the sailor weight issue for simplicity, and average the yardsticks for the two weight classes. The Div II board is obviously rated too slowly. FWIW after our testing I'd put a Kona One on the same handicap as the Windsurfer One Design. I think the FW board is rated near the Moth and 49er but in non-planing winds it could be rated slower than the Opti. For comparison, the old-rules IC is 93.5 (ouch!), the Musto 94, B14 94.4, 29er 96.5, 505 97.5, Laser 113 and Radial 116. In general the numbers seem to provide a pretty reasonable and accurate comparison of overall performance between the boards and the boats. The performance of the boards does vary enormously depending on wind strength and angle, and whether it's a course where you can foot off into a knock or have to sail high into lifts due to geographic features. The real issue, though, is pumping - when you have a class like the Raceboards that allows unrestricted pumping the boards can beat just about anything in the right conditions; how do you rate a class that can move at several knots in a dead calm? About the "they shouldn't have let her enter with that handicap" point - the issue is that experience proves that NOT letting someone race because they don't have a reliable handicap causes just as many complaints as letting them race and giving them a dodgy handicap. Edited by Chris 249 - 02 Sep 14 at 1:20am

kneewrecker Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586	Post Options Post Reply Quote kneewrecker Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 10:05pm
	Formula board on a point to point race... In 2003. I see none of them were troubling Johnny Heineken on his foiling kiteboard last year. Gotta love Wikipedia....

iGRF Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499	Post Options Post Reply Quote iGRF Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 9:53pm
	Well I've had a very nice reply back from the commodore of IOSSC and apparently they got their intel from this. They got it from Wikipedia. Racing against other sailing craft Racing against other windsurfer types and boat type is possible using a handicap system. The most widely recognised handicap system in the world is the Portsmouth Yardstick. Formula boards commonly sail with a handicap equivalent to the 18foot skiff. Currently this is a handicap of 685. Although not a lot of racing between Formula boards and other sailing classes has taken place at the international level; in an event in San Francisco in 2003, Formula sailor Micah Buzianis (USA-34) beat the world's best kiteboarders and 18 ft Skiff sailors in the Ronstan Bridge-to-Bridge race, showing the speed of Formula boards against some of the fastest racing craft in sailing. Not much I can do to argue really, the windsurf community are not organised well enough and having ourselves represented by bloody Formula is bad enough, I'm going to have to think about what to do, they've agreed to trial whatever we come up with next year. Nice guy even though he sails a CAT. I can see I'm going to have to start engaging with this mess and post some sailboard times on the RYA thing either that or get my rival SBRHS formula finished. As if I haven't got enough to do.
	Snow Equipment Deals New Core Kite website

Medway Maniac Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788	Post Options Post Reply Quote Medway Maniac Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 2:11pm
	That sounds like the old no-spinnaker Laser 2000 PY from 2009! My, they are behind the times - unless, of course the boat was actually sailed without a kite, in which case 1120 may have been a little harsh compared to 1100 with kite.
	Wilsonian SC 3000 Class

Neal_g Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 07 Oct 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 323	Post Options Post Reply Quote Neal_g Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 1:19pm
	its not blame its an observation.
	(Redoubt Sc) Miracle 4040 GP14 13407 Crewsaver phase 2 range now available to buy online on at http://www.gibsonsails.com

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 1:11pm
	Could easily be a scoring error, goodness knows its easily done, but you sound as if you are blaming the sailors for that...

Neal_g Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 07 Oct 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 323	Post Options Post Reply Quote Neal_g Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 1:05pm
	or how about the laser 2000 with a 20 point increase on its handicap from the py list making it 1120. it definitely wasnt in the fast fleet start me thinks they have saved an hour off there elapsed time. gifting them 6th place Edited by Neal_g - 01 Sep 14 at 1:08pm
	(Redoubt Sc) Miracle 4040 GP14 13407 Crewsaver phase 2 range now available to buy online on at http://www.gibsonsails.com

James Bell Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Posting king Joined: 17 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 115	Post Options Post Reply Quote James Bell Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 12:27pm
	Just to clarify the situation re: websites, the current committee of the IOS Sailing Club, requested at very short notice in July that I dissociate the website I built promoting the club from representing the club, which meant a number of pages had to be removed on a temporary basis. It's now an independent website ('IOS Sailing Community') promoting sailing on Sheppey, and still also providing one of the earliest, and most popular free weather cam services in the South East. From 2002 - 2012 sailboards were scored on elapsed time only and kept completely separate from the dinghy & cat results. It's unclear why the decision was taken to include them in the main results this year. I've now had time to update & re-instate the archive of results on the original website (www.iossc.org.uk). A long time ago in the 80s, the windsurfers used to be scored according to Divisions (and were sometimes allocated a PY of 1000), but when I consulted the local windsurfers in 2002, they said most of the old sailboard categories had disappeared, and they recommended the only approach that made sense now was simply to score them separately on elapsed time only. (Race Coordinator 2002-2011). Edited by James Bell - 01 Sep 14 at 12:45pm
	IOS Sailing Community - www.iossc.org.uk

iGRF Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499	Post Options Post Reply Quote iGRF Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 11:39am
	There are some weird things going on there, they've split their website into two, so you can't get the old results, it's probably the same old Cat politics that gave rise to the Cat club all those years ago, you know what cat sailors are like.. Edited by iGRF - 01 Sep 14 at 11:42am
	Snow Equipment Deals New Core Kite website