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gordon
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Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Topic: Simple Racing RulesPosted: 26 Aug 14 at 6:00pm |
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Unfortunately some sailors have been known to confuse 'sportsmanship' with 'gamesmanship'
For once Wikepedia provides an amusing take on this. Referring to the seminal The Theory and Practice of Gamesmanship (or the Art of Winning Games without Actually Cheating,by Stephen Potter: Potter's double-edged ironies did not spare the gamesman himself (he slyly named one prominent protagonist 'Bzo, U., holder (1947) Yugo-Slav Gamesmanship Championship', for example). Potter acknowledged repeatedly that 'the way of the gamesman is hard, his training strict, his progress slow, his disappointments many', and recognised that as a result 'the assiduous student of gamesmanship has little time for the minutiae of the game itself - little opportunity for learning how to play the shots, for instance'. Yet one of his "correspondents" owlishly admits, 'there is no doubt that a knowledge of the game itself sometimes helps the gamesman'. Hence 'perhaps the most difficult type for the gamesman to play is the man who indulges in pure play. He gets down to it, he gets on with it, he plays each shot according to its merits, and his own powers, without a trace of exhibitionism, and no by-play whatever' The book gloomily concludes, 'we amateurs have to fight against the growing menace of young people who insist on playing their various games for the fun of the thing...indulging rather too freely, if the truth were known, in pure play' |
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Gordon
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rb_stretch
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Joined: 23 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 742 |
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Posted: 26 Aug 14 at 8:11pm |
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The race in question was the high profile Draycote Dash in 2012 , which is a big winter series here in the UK. This article describes the incident: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/161828/SailJuice-Global-Warm-Up-2012 The rules as you describe we're not applied and it was only after a lot of internet ranting that the Fireball in question decided to apologise. The result still stood though, because time ran out for the protest and I think the recipients of the Fireball sailors actions were too angry/despondent to follow up. Anyway just an illustration of top sailors following rules by the letter, rather than the spirit. |
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rb_stretch
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Joined: 23 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 742 |
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Posted: 26 Aug 14 at 8:17pm |
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Although I'm open to the distinction you make, the challenge of rule 2 is that it can conflict with the actual rules. I suspect this was the issue in the Fireball case. They followed the rules to the letter, which kind of made it difficult to override with the subjective Rule 2. Maybe Rule 2 needs to have a higher priority, as a deterrent to those who seek to exploit the way rules are worded? ie. if you exploit a rule, then you first need to demonstrate that it was done in fairness and good sportsmanship?
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sargesail
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Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
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Posted: 26 Aug 14 at 9:03pm |
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Without returning to old arguments what the Fireball did was explicitly within the letter and the spirit of the laws - in that they are specifically drafted to allow such conduct which is also supported by Case Law. The circumstances to make it 'worthwhile' has simply never occurred before. For many the issue was that the Fireball had set the 'worthwhile' threshold too low for a Winter PY Series. But it's a pointless example.
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Posted: 26 Aug 14 at 9:20pm |
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Am I a below-average citizen for not having read The Big Book of UK Laws? I do know the 10 Commandments though... But I do take your point. I should try to educate myself. |
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gordon
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Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Posted: 26 Aug 14 at 10:30pm |
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The Fireball could have retired if they felt that they had not complied with recognised principles of sportsmanship and fair play. The crew would have won the respect of all their fellow competitors, which, as the remark attributed to Elvestrom points out, is more important than winning the race.
There is no time limit for a boat to retire! |
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Gordon
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rb_stretch
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Joined: 23 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 742 |
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Posted: 27 Aug 14 at 6:56am |
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The only defence I heard was that the Fireball followed rules to the letter. What that really meant was that it following all the rules to the letter except rule 2 (or maybe some others that Brass might better highlight). Somehow it seems that precise rules are more important than more subjective rules and this is one of the reasons why we can't have more simple rules. If Rule 2 was more important than others we could ask the question, did the Fireball conduct itself in a fair and sportsmanlike way in interpreting the other rules? I think the answer would be no and given their apology it seems like they would also agree with that statement. Anyway, the reason I bring this up is that if we are to create some simplified rules we need some qualitative ones that cover those circumstances outside of the mainstream of circumstances that the more precise rules can't cover. Specifically they need to cover the attempts of exploitation of rules. Cases would then test that subjectivity, so that the boundaries would establish themselves fairly quickly. Unfortunately I personally don't have the time to explore how feasible that could actually be, but I'm definitely interested based on my experience in other fields. |
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rb_stretch
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Joined: 23 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 742 |
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Posted: 27 Aug 14 at 7:01am |
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UK Law just illustrates how absurd it can get. I can't remember the exact figure, but since Tony Blair(a lawyer) came in, the number of UK laws has gone through huge exponential growth. Even the lawyers can't keep up. How are people supposed to stay within the law if no-one can usefully read, let alone understand it all?
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 27 Aug 14 at 8:30am |
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Fortunately most of the new laws aren't new laws at all just old ones dressed up a bit with extra trimmings. I'm at risk of getting political here, but you know, once you have a law against assault, that's all you need if you enforce it. You don't need it to be [large list of alternatives]-aggravated-assault as well unless you are a politician in need of a soundbite or a journo needing some copy. |
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Brass
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Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Posted: 27 Aug 14 at 11:42am |
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OK, I've read the account of the incident. I don't want rake over this if it's done and dusted, but your comments raise a few challenges. Apparently the reason why 'the rules as describe[d]' were not 'applied' was that the Phantom did not protest. Regardless of whether they failed to deliver a written protest in time ('time ran out') or whatever other reason, the Phantom did not play his part in the enforcement of the rules by protesting. The account (and you) implies that they were so gob-smacked that they didn't think to protest. These are National level competitors: gob-smacked doesn't cut it. Case closed. Sympathy switch to Off.
I'd really like you to give an example of this, citing the actual text of the rule and explaining how you think there is 'conflict'.
We have only the say-so of the competitors in the Fireball that they followed the rules to the letter. Because there was no protest hearing that decided 'no rules were broken' we have no reason to agree with the competitors in the Fireball. As I described previously, its highly likely that they broke rule 24.2, and if there had been a protest for rule 2 bare, then I think it would have been quite possible to distinguish this incident from Case 78.
How would this have helped in this case? Because there was no protest, there was no exploration of whether rule 2 would have been effective or not. All rules are created equal. we should probably keep them that way.
I disagree, for the reasons I put above. There certainly is no rule explicitly permitting the actions of the Fireball.
I am surprised that you claim knowledge of the intention of the rules drafters. I don't think you really have that knowledge. I don't think you can point to any rule that 'specifically allows' the actions of the Fireball. Looking at the long and troubled history of Case 78, I would say that 'sailing a boat down the fleet' was never contemplated by the drafters of the rules, and it's taken a long period of development of case law to arrive at the present Case 78 position. Edited by Brass - 27 Aug 14 at 11:43am |
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