Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
The Olympic Curse |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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I used to race a Topper. Trouble is, you are there with a load of kids on the water, and all the people of your age on the shore looking at you like a bully because you are on the water with them. There were one or two parents who used to sail too - are there any now? Also, if you win, you are "beating kids", and if you lose, you are "beaten by kids". Can't win either way, really...
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Bootscooter ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1094 |
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I did a couple of Topper events when my kids were in them, and managed not to embarrass myself. Good fun racing and did me good as I had to be sailing at 100% all the time in order to keep the racing snakes behind me! Thing I was one of only 3 or 4 adults out there though.
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iiitick ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 04 Jun 14 Location: gb Online Status: Offline Posts: 478 |
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Well today it was blowing old boots at our club. Gusty, shifty and cold. We had one Byte out practicing for the Nationals and four experience helms who forsook their usual mounts, Laser, Lightning, Phantom and Supernova, for club Toppers. I was on rescue to enjoy the fun! The lightning sailor (girl) did ok as did the Nova sailor but the Laser sailor struggled and the Phantom sailor failed miserably seeming to be a permanent sinking position. The Byte of course was awesome!
So you see Rupert Toppers can be sailed by grown ups even if the boats did come back in bits!
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Times 10 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 02 Nov 12 Location: Doncaster Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
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I sailed Toppers when my son was in them, it was fantastic racing against the kids. I figured whats worse standing with the parents or racing against some quality sailors? Not really a choice, so I enjoyed every bit of it. I don't think there has been another parent since who has finished in the top ten at the Nationals. And I did not have a days coaching.
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craiggo ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Due to the rather breezy conditions, I opted out of one of our clubs long distance races and instead headed up to Frampton On Severn SC with the daughter for a spot of Optimist sailing.
I spotted 4 toppers racing and not a yoof in any of them! |
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iiitick ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 04 Jun 14 Location: gb Online Status: Offline Posts: 478 |
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Off topic...but you have to love Toppers. Our ancient club boats get crashed about, beached and abused but they keep coming back for more! What I did notice today was that they started the race with controls all nice and tight but as the race proceeded it all slacked off until they flapped round the course. Next race began with everything pulled on tight but same thing happened.
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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The numbers do seem to show a decline in adult dinghy racing and a strong growth in kids sailing, at least at championship level. From personal experience. an influx of kids may drive adults out of a class, but it's also possible for significant numbers of mature adults to remain in classes where the majority are kids or young adults. Down here the Radial fleet at championships is, IIRC, about one third adults. The strength of Laser Masters is shown by the fact that at our last Nationals the 55-65 year Radial division alone had more entries than the UK big rig open Nationals! However, most years we have separate Open and Masters titles and very few adults normally do the Open championships as well as the Masters. Toppers do seem to be a great little boat. Is a shift away from adults in Toppers caused by an influx of kids, or the fact that adults are now normally bigger than they were when the Topper was new, and therefore few adults are small enough to sail them comfortably?
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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The ‘Olympic Curse’ seems to mean that, as a result of
selection as an Olympic Class, a class’s long term development and growth is
significantly impeded, or that it’s decay is accelerated. Reasons for this may be: ·
Escalation of the level of competition in the
class so that ‘ordinary’ competitors believe that they cannot succeed in
competition against ‘full-time’, ‘professional’ or ‘sponsored’ competitors (who
don’t stay in the class permanently);
and ·
Escalation of technical sophistication and cost
of equipment, and rapid turnover of sails and equipment. The Olympics certainly didn’t do the Star and the Finn,
which lasted 70 and 50 years respectively as Olympic classes, any harm, but it’s
not necessary that the Olympic Curse apply to every Olympic class for it to
exist. The existence or efficacy of the Olympic Curse is usually
said to be demonstrated by comparing an Olympic class with highly similar
non-Olympic Class, particularly where there were trials for Olympic class
selection. Based on (somewhat sketchy) Australian National Championship
figures (Chris249 doubtless has better and broader figures): Finn (handful, <10) v
Contender (about 60) FD (handful, <10) v 505 (about
50) Soling (handful, <10) v Etchells
(30 to 50) 470 (<20) v Fireball (about 20
in Victoria alone) So you can at least conclude that in the medium to long
term, the Olympics has not helped a fair proportion of classes in comparison
with their near competitors. Proponents of the competing non-Olympic classes will probably say that it is all a result of their class being a better boat. Certainly the 505 and the Etchells guys will say that, but for opposite reasons: the 505 guys will tout the flexibility and development options of their class rule, while the Etchells will emphasise the benefits of very strict class rules. Probably the only purpose of contemplating the phenomenon of
the Olympic Curse, other than for students of black magic, is to try to
identify what factors might leave a class ‘exposed’ to the curse if the class
was pitching for Olympic selection, and what factors, more generally, will
affect the longevity, growth, development and decay of a class. Personally, I think the ‘Olympic Curse’ idea was a catchy
notion, cooked up by the 505 and Etchells folk. While it seems to have some empirical validity, who is to
say that classes which go downhill were either great in their day, but are now
past their use by date, or were doomed to fail in any case (Tempest). Fortunately, very few of us will ever be in a position to
influence a Class Association whether or not to pitch for Olympic selection. |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Adults sailing Toppers at club level, or off the beach would appear to be a fairly common sight, as has been described here, especially when wanting some windy day fun. But as a championships boat? Not so much.
As for the Olympics, the Firefly was an Olympic boat in 1948, and is still going strong today. Would it be if it had continued as the Olympic singlehander for another 3 games, say? Would it have withered as a 2 person boat, but never caught on in the real world as a singlehander? |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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PeterV ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 24 Feb 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 131 |
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I thought the olympic curse was a term used to cover two developments. Firstly, the pace of equipment development speeded up rapidly, causing problems for club sailors wanting some longevity from their kit. The second was that the level of competition increased such that the average club sailor stopped going to open events becaue he felt he didn't stand a chance against the 'professionals'.
The first has been outdated by the Laser, because it's strict one design proinciple has meant that development has been very limited. Some Olympic classes like the Finn are now doing very well because the development is now reasonably mature so that a 15 year old boat is almost as fast as a new one, so competitive club sailing is again available. The second still exists to some extent but the separation of the squads now means that the domestic open circuit is now almost exclusively club sailors again.
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PeterV
Finn K197, Finn GBR564, GK29 Warsash |
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