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200 kicker position
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piglet View Drop Down
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Posts: 514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 200 kicker position
    Posted: 09 Jun 14 at 10:23am
Thanks for your support Jaydub.
Our set up was 395/135, 21' 8", 300Lb  Will have to check the foot position.
Deflection is now 160 but I can't say we have noticed much of a difference.
Our combined weight is shamefully around 22.5 and we are not Olympic athletes!
 
I re-measured the kicker from the back of mast and got 438-440 depending on boom height
That's 95mm, almost 4" less than our training partners 535mm.
In the contenders we have the kicker way back on the boom to maximise leverage, and I can still get across OK when in front of the tower.
 
Are you 4:1 or 8:1 on the Cunningham?
 
Another issue that could be indirectly related is how to set the jib slot when you can't see the slot?
If we are over sheeting the jib and closing the top that will cause further backwinding on the main.
Would black sailtape on the jib leech be visible enough through the main?
Can the crew see the slot by leaning right forward and looking round the front of the mast?
Our cars are right back.
Thanks again, all helpful
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Steve411 View Drop Down
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Posts: 705 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 14 at 11:39am
You set the slot by how the jib luff telltales react. When you luff up, all the windward telltales (top, middle and bottom) should lift together. If the top telltales lifts first, you have insufficient leech tension (moves the cars forward a bit). If the bottom telltale lifts first, too much leech tension and a closed slot, so either move cars back or ease sheet tension.
Steve B
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jaydub View Drop Down
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Posts: 267 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jaydub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 14 at 12:38pm
At 22.5 stone, you don't want 160mm.  Go back to 135mm or even move to 130.
 
We sail with one hole showing on the track unless we're overpowered and then we move it back.
 
Jib sheet lightly eased in not much wind, but pull it in as soon as there is sufficient wind to propely fill the sails.
 
We're 4:1 on the Cunningham.
 
Rig tension set at 26 on a Loos gauge when it's light and 28 when it's windy.  Not sure how that converts to pounds without checking the meter and converting.
 
Forgot to measure the kicker take off point yesterday, but the boat is in the garage so will try and check in the next day or two.
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jaydub View Drop Down
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Posts: 267 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jaydub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 14 at 10:57pm
Just measured mine.  It's about 388mm from the centre of the take off point measured from the end of the bearing surface on the inner end of the boom, so in the same ball park as both your's and Transient's.

It's plenty powerful enough where it is; I wouldn't move it any further back.
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transient View Drop Down
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 14 at 11:39am
Is there another 200 at your club. Some 2 boat training/setting up might isolate the problem, swap boats half way through the session.
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piglet View Drop Down
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Posts: 514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 14 at 4:59pm
Agree, 2 boat tuning would be good.
It might also be useful to try a different sail on our set-up.
Conventional wisdom is that the mains don't vary or stretch a lot, but it would be good to eliminate any doubt, it is getting on a bit.
 
Thanks for the measurement Jaydub, sounds like that's the factory setting.
This coming Sunday doesn't look like being a kicker sort of day Cry
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transient View Drop Down
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 14 at 5:27pm
I have a reasonably new main and jib you can borrow if you're anywhere near 1066 country.
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jaydub View Drop Down
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Posts: 267 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jaydub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 14 at 7:11pm

I bought a second hand suit of sails for £100 for club sailing when it's blowing old boots.  It doesn't harm us too because when it's that windy it is more about the way you sail the boat.  Upwind, there is a groove you can get into with 2s, but it's probably took us 8 or 9 years to find it.

At the end of the day, it is a fully battened main and it will never blade like a soft sail.  The standard settings are perfectly OK.  Use them and work on the technique.  If there's a magic answer, it passed me by a long time ago. Wink
 
Where abouts are you based?
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MerlinMags View Drop Down
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Posts: 588 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MerlinMags Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 14 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by piglet

We seem to be struggling to get the 200 main flat enough


In what way do you 'measure' if it is flat enough? Do you mean it looks a bit too full, or do you mean you feel the effects of an overly-full mainsail without using your eyes?!
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 14 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by MerlinMags

Originally posted by piglet

We seem to be struggling to get the 200 main flat enough


In what way do you 'measure' if it is flat enough? Do you mean it looks a bit too full, or do you mean you feel the effects of an overly-full mainsail without using your eyes?!


Also where are you struggling to get it flat? Bottom panel will need outhaul, top will need cunningham, middle will need a mix of the right spreader settings and kicker.
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