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boatbasher View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by iitick

When I first saw the 100 at the show I was so impressed with the sexy carbon foredeck and all that stuff. It did look the dogs at Ali Pali. We have one at our club now and it looks flappy and clumsy alongside a 300. At it's launch all you wealthy guys must have been fingers poised for the bax payment. There will always be fashionable/boats/cars/trousers, no harm in that it keeps the wheels of industry turning. The same thing is happening with the D Zero but the D Zero looks lovely and modern as well as being user friendly. I see a real future for it as a mass participation class.


Agreed ... all the fundamentals look good on the D-0.

I really hope the D-0 does not end up the way of the RS100 ...
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Posts: 889 		Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by Neptune

Originally posted by AlexM

I think the monster tag might have come from the gybing aspect where it was difficult in high winds especially if you were at the lower end of the scale (a gybing strop soon sorted that out)


Interested in that - in a Musto we'd not gybe the main by hand with the kite up until it was ballistic and only then because you were safety gybing. The main gets left to sort itself out


I agree, in the 100 I never had a gybing strop and never once had a problem gybing because the main was coming over late. As long as you had enough mainsheet on the main would just gently flop over and the kite would do all the pulling through the gybe. The main killer was going slow into and through the gybe, just as in a 700/musto. Priority must be given to getting your arse over the side rather than fiddling around gybing the main!
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 3:21pm
I think that is unlikely.  The D-Zero will perform to expectation on RTC club courses, and will (in theory) provide good racing with similar paced existing classes- be that finns, OKs, Supernovas etc  I fully expect some movement on the PY, but this unlikely to be the monumental shifts enough for anyone to really notice, not once they've got the boat dialled in anyway.  

The RS100 had nothing to race against unless there just happened to be an existing fleet of 200s and/or 400s.  Plus a number of us bought them and sailed them at small inland venues, or places without dedicated W/L racing.  Sure, you could say that was naive, I chalk it up to experience.  Anyway not an issue for the D-Zero, it just slots right in to a typical handicap fleet.  No more advantageous than any other unarig really - it's what the Rooster 8.1 could be with a hull & rig upgrade ;-)

Both classes are similar only in one respect: amateur sailors are giving them a chance, a chance that maybe the D-One was not afforded.   I think there are 35+ confirmed orders (more deposits) for the UK.  That seems like good initial take up, I hope that's sustainable rather than the boom / bust model of the 100.

Other than that, I think the 100 was more hype, the D-Zero more reality- I don't really get a vibe there's much 'D-Zero hype', it's just a 'nice boat' that is reflected in the reportage.    This is possibly a realisation of a maturity in the marketplace that doesn't think of asymmetric sailing as some panacea for boring boats.  The 90's marketing bull finally wearing off?  The asymmetric dinghies which are good have survived, the rest are dead or dying.  A bit like foiling.  No one wants a 600FF, even the A-Class boys are in meltdown.  If you want to foil, get a moth.  It's niche, but it's right for the market space.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6660 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

I don't really get a vibe there's much 'D-Zero hype',

!!!!
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 3:38pm
For me, the problem RS had/have is the need to flood the market with initial sales.  In many cases to the wrong people.  They market boats as a one size fits all and sell allot of boats to allot of people, who then suffer with buyers remorse when they realise they have made a bad decision.  This then forces an influx of stock into the used market place which intern causes others to distress sell.  Which has a medium term effect on new boat sales; people question the value of purchasing a boat.  The residuals look shocking, the new boat price support is dropped (is a new 100 £9500) which compounds the problem.  At the same time marketing support all but stops and the initial shiny new class feeling is lost.  Couple this with people starting to have small warranty issues and you can see why its in decline.  This is before mentioning people questioning rules around sail sizes, or even how good/bad the boat goes uphill.

in order to make a product a success there needs to be a demand in the market place.  limiting or controlling supply is a good way of instigating a demand.  Or let a product grow organically after an early adoption scheme.  In my industry we see both styles of selling both with merits, but ling term in a much smaller industry such as the marine industry i know which i think is a better model for the consumer....
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by kneewrecker

I don't really get a vibe there's much 'D-Zero hype',

!!!!

Jim, with respect you need to look outside of the Y&Y forum to understand that there is very little in the way of hype.  There are no videos of people lifting a boat on a show stand or 'Flash' websites.  The only hype is from consumers who have purchased a boat, with the designer and retailer answering questions.  Hardly the wheels of a multimillion pound marketing machine turning are they, or videos/interviews with Olympians waxing lyrical!
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by kneewrecker

I don't really get a vibe there's much 'D-Zero hype',

!!!!

I assume you disagree, I guess perception is a personal thing.

But no, no hype, no marketing bullsh*t, no claims of laws of physics defying performance or even a dodgy PY number to skew opinion one way or t'other.  

Sure there's a few amateur videos and some commentary from prospective customers who've tried it.    A bit of open Q&A between punters and Dan/Rodney.... really, it couldn't be less hyped if it tried.  

A simple exercise of compare and contrast, I offer you one other new design / new class to consider... no not that one, even that's not that hyped; try the MX-Next from Vlad, or what about the Shaw 4.0?


Edited by kneewrecker - 03 Jun 14 at 3:57pm
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 4:32pm
Out of interest - what are the relative strengths and weaknesses of the current competitors in this niche ?  ie 100 and D-1 ....  What could have been or should have been different ?

Mike L.
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 4:45pm
FWIW- my opinion can be summed up with the name 'Kirstie Allsopp'..... Location, Location, Location is so important.  On a small stretch of water, or within a traditional racing infrastructure of cats cradle courses, I believe the demand was/is rather short lived with a limited appeal.  

So you look to a larger lake or sea venue, and you apply longer legs to get that kite to pay.  Well that's a double-edge sword, unlike snow-sports no one has fitted a drag lift to take you uphill again, therefore you are really only appealing to the limited number of folks who don't want a trapeze boat.  From observation, the D-One is less of a ball-ache than the RS100- I guess beam and gust response is king in the design.

Where there is a viable niche seems to be in racing against 200s and 400s- that seems to work quite well.  I certainly enjoyed racing 4s and 2s at various handicap events in mine.  To the point where I wasn't bothering club sailing it anymore.      

I'm not just basing this on my own experience, but we had 4 RS100s at the club I sailed mine at, none are there now.  I also understand that the RS100s at Chelmarsh are being sold up as part of an upgrade to a fleet RS Aeros.  I don't know that for sure, I heard it third hand, but it wouldn't surprise me.  The Aero would be a far better boat for the location.
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 4:50pm
... so beyond location and accepting the 2-sail singlehander hiking concept for a moment .. what is good about each and what could have been better ?  More sail / less sail .. wider / narrower  lighter/ 'standard' ? etc etc 

Mike L.
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