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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: modified one designs
    Posted: 01 Jun 14 at 10:53pm
Oh, and don't expect any better results with your modified boat than you got before you changed it...
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2547 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 14 at 10:27am
Originally posted by Null

 Can't even be bothered to read that let alone post a response

That has to be the most pointless post ever seen on this forum ...

Chris249 posts some of the most insightful and detailed posts here usually with many references to support the points being made.

Perhaps if you read them then you may learn something ...

Your chosen forum name of "Null" pretty much sums up this contribution.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 14 at 10:43am
So, the reasons for modding your one design should be: Because you feel like it; because you want to make it nicer to sail; because you want to make it faster; because you can't afford the regulation bits. I'm sure there are more. One bad reason: because you want to win.

Reasons not to do it: To keep sailing with other boats which are the same; to keep a recognized yardstick; to keep the resale value.
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 14 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by Null

 Can't even be bothered to read that let alone post a response

That has to be the most pointless post ever seen on this forum ...

Chris249 posts some of the most insightful and detailed posts here usually with many references to support the points being made.

Perhaps if you read them then you may learn something ...

Your chosen forum name of "Null" pretty much sums up this contribution.

To be fair, i did read it and respond and my comment was poorly written and out of the context that was meant (Chris Sorry if i came across overly rude, it wasn't meant to be but actually a better post would of been i cant even be bothered to read that at the moment and respond).  I did in fact read it and respond hence if you had of bothered to look a couple of posts down you would see that i had responded.

FWIW, i agree with both JimC and Chris, my point is that we (not just Chris i am guilty as well) compare sailing to other sports like cycling when it suits our argument.  When in my opinion (remember forums are opinion and not fact so be careful what you 'learn') it is a poor comparison and only a small section of the global sport of cycling was taken into consideration.

I agree fully that Chris post some insightful stuff but sometimes i feel its a little long winded and is written in a way which is there to try and belittle and disprove (patronise) someones opinion or post.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 14 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by Null


I agree fully that Chris post some insightful stuff but sometimes i feel its a little long winded and is written in a way which is there to try and belittle and disprove (patronise) someones opinion or post.


He's an Aussie, so you have to be rude and horrid to him at every opportunity..

It works for me
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 1:45am
Thanks 2547 Embarrassed

Null, apologies for coming across as patronising. It is hard to give proper nuances on the net.

In my defence, can I say;

1 - Many (most?) of my posts are actually written in defence of people or classes, such as my original post in this thread which was defending dinghy sailors and club officials against the claim that they were "very bossy", and I often feel passionate about that stuff. Is defending people more patronising than accusing them?

2 - I have been doing an enormous amount of research over the past decade into issues like dinghy design history and equipment regulations. This has lead me to study the whole area of the effects of technology and equipment design regulation on participation in sports for a PhD. The fact that I have spent so much time looking into this area does mean that I do know the area fairly well, just like other people know about the history of Ford Cortinas or GWR signal boxes, or the effects of Alpha waves on visual perception. We've all got areas that we have studied a lot and this is the one for me, that's all.

By the way, I didn't pick cycling as an example to suit my beliefs; those beliefs were created by learning from sports like cycling (which is a popular and successful sport in which I compete). 

Re the points you raised, such as the existence of sub-disciplines in MTBing; I know about them but I'm in a cleft stick. If I don't mention such things then you take issue with their omission, if I do mention such things then you criticise me for writing long posts. IMHO these things are complex issues and therefore discussion will be lengthy.

By the way, re forums being about "opinions and not fact"; in many forums on other subjects people expect facts and posters are expected to come up with sources, preferably from primary sources, to back up statements they make. I'm not saying that Y&Y should do the same, though; I find opinions invaluable which is why I read them.




Edited by Chris 249 - 03 Jun 14 at 5:35am
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 8:41am
Opinionated threads are more fun to read, so long as there is an interesting subject behind it all, but they lose appeal when the mud slinging starts. A nice mix of opion and fact is good - very often there is no right or wrong about the things we discuss on here - is it right or wrong to alter a one design? Neither, or both, or one, or the other - just personal points of view.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 9:27am
Facts? Don't you find they get in the way of a good theory?
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 11:43am
Originally posted by Chris 249

Thanks 2547 Embarrassed

Null, apologies for coming across as patronising. It is hard to give proper nuances on the net.

In my defence, can I say;

1 - Many (most?) of my posts are actually written in defence of people or classes, such as my original post in this thread which was defending dinghy sailors and club officials against the claim that they were "very bossy", and I often feel passionate about that stuff. Is defending people more patronising than accusing them?

2 - I have been doing an enormous amount of research over the past decade into issues like dinghy design history and equipment regulations. This has lead me to study the whole area of the effects of technology and equipment design regulation on participation in sports for a PhD. The fact that I have spent so much time looking into this area does mean that I do know the area fairly well, just like other people know about the history of Ford Cortinas or GWR signal boxes, or the effects of Alpha waves on visual perception. We've all got areas that we have studied a lot and this is the one for me, that's all.

By the way, I didn't pick cycling as an example to suit my beliefs; those beliefs were created by learning from sports like cycling (which is a popular and successful sport in which I compete). 

Re the points you raised, such as the existence of sub-disciplines in MTBing; I know about them but I'm in a cleft stick. If I don't mention such things then you take issue with their omission, if I do mention such things then you criticise me for writing long posts. IMHO these things are complex issues and therefore discussion will be lengthy.

By the way, re forums being about "opinions and not fact"; in many forums on other subjects people expect facts and posters are expected to come up with sources, preferably from primary sources, to back up statements they make. I'm not saying that Y&Y should do the same, though; I find opinions invaluable which is why I read them.



No need to apologise Chris, its a forum.  Conversations here are very different to how people talk to each other in a pub.

I think we are kind of on the same wave length.  But my point is that we talk about sailing as a sport, but then you compare to a "Sub Discipline" of cycling.  Road and track are two very competitive, very restricted areas of cycling. (Something i also enjoy and compete in both TT, CX and MTb Enduro) but other aspects of cycling such as MTB and all its sub categories have more relaxed rule-sets around equipment.  I can see why people use the sport as a comparison, but to my mind they are in massively different places (certainly in the UK) cycling in all aspects is on the up in the UK where as dinghy sailing seems somewhat dormant.

I think where we could agree is that the most successful aspects of both sports (Road racing/Cycling) and perhaps Laser sailing both have very tight rule-sets (Bossy--to use a phrase from earlier in the thread)  so to counter this point is the sport too bossy? - No!  Its clear to see from a cross section of disciplines the most popular areas are those with tighter rules.  Removing the rules would have a detrimental effect on the sport...it makes it what it is!
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 11:48am
Originally posted by Rupert

Opinionated threads are more fun to read, so long as there is an interesting subject behind it all, but they lose appeal when the mud slinging starts. A nice mix of opion and fact is good - very often there is no right or wrong about the things we discuss on here - is it right or wrong to alter a one design? Neither, or both, or one, or the other - just personal points of view.

I think its important to remember this, this forum is very straight laced and does not react well to a little trolling or baiting.  Its often why we have fits and spurts of posting then moments of prolonged silence!  It makes it quite a nice place to come and visit albeit a very quite forum considering its the main online forum for the sport!

I think its important to remember that what some people post on here is never meant to be overly hurtful, but more to gauge a reaction and get people posting!  Sure it can get a bit tasty and out of hand.  But take it with a pinch of salt when some people post (i include myself very much in this) sure it annoys people.  But it sure as hell gets them posting and generates traffic!
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