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Telltale View Drop Down
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Posts: 169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Telltale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: modified one designs
    Posted: 30 May 14 at 7:22pm

Thanks for inadvertently proving my point.

I am not talking about complying with the Rules or Laws of the sport everyone needs to do that, and using F1 as an example is frankly preposterous since you need to be a multi millionaire to partake.

The point has been made by others in the thread with examples. For “bossy” substitute, pedantic, fickle, jobs worth, control freak take your pick.

We have all experienced them surely!

It would be equally difficult to provide examples of more pedantic sports rather than less.

I’ll try to answer your posts within your parameters next time.

The point of the thread was why don’t people modify their one design class.

My point is go for it if you want to !

Someone on this thread broke the mould and did something different, it was recognised by many as being a bold step, however, many ridiculed the project and still do.

The sport will not go forward if we don’t try things.

I apologise Jim if you have taken the brunt of my frustration, in fact thank you for forcing it to the surface.

I am now going to apply for membership of "Chiponmyshoulder SC"
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 14 at 11:41pm
I haven't done many other sports at a serious level, but most of the ones that I have done are more "bossy" than sailing in many important ways.

In road and track cycling, even the length of your socks is controlled - yes, sock length! And woe betide anyone who turns up at a club even without the right jersey on, or who takes their hands off the bars to give a winner's salute like the pros do.

In road cycling every major piece of gear is subject to rules on dimensions and it must be in production, unmodified and available to all, and must be approved by the governing body. It's the equivalent of ISAF only allowing sailors to use Merlin sails cut by a certain loft and not allowing any re-cuts. 

In surfing the gear is pretty free as far as rules go (and it doesn't change much which is interesting in the light of the many claims that sailing develops slowly) but the attitude on the water in many places is not just "bossy", it's punch-your-head-in nasty. And one imagines that competitive surfers feel that having to do what judges score highest is a significant form of bossiness.

Sports like skiing and golf seem to be more bossy (at competitive level) than sailing, as far as equipment goes. The gear used for significant competitions is strictly controlled and has to be pre-approved by the organising body. There is no opportunity to create a foiling Moth, D-One or Laser; all the gear seems to be the equivalent of a restricted development class in which only production gear that fits the taste and whim of the organising body is permitted.

Using small sails in racing is a pretty complex question IMHO. It can cost money and give people an advantage over those who don't have a small sail. I introduced the use of small sails at national level in one class (subject to restrictions) and am about to try out small gear in another class. These things were done to make sailing easier for beginners, but there ARE significant problems with this approach and IMHO any club that bans them is perfectly reasonable.
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 14 at 8:30am
I've watched a couple of indoor snowboarding competitions- one of which was at a reasonable level on our national circuit.  The competitors can use any equipment they want, as long as it is freely available to the public.  Naturally the economics kick in - more or less every rider is sponsored to a level, or seeking sponsorship - so stickers and the brand ridden becomes important.

The entire sport is based on pushing the envelope, although there are recognised moves and styles which clock higher scores.  So structure and anti-structure seem to work very well - slope style is a recognised Olympic discipline now, so I guess it's got some official cred in Lausanne.

I can see why this appeals to a younger generation, the same way off road biking and downhill is going to appeal much more to them than the snooty world of road biking with it's utterly embarrassing top-tier of druggies in lycra.  I guess sailing's equivalent is turning your back on the highly structured world of 29ers and getting something like a Cherub - or even a Moth, which seems to attract a much more free-ridey and festival attitude than some stuffy old sailing events.


Edited by kneewrecker - 31 May 14 at 8:34am
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 14 at 8:33am
Chris, cycling is not a great example.  As I have said before you pick road or track cycling but forget to mention mtb and all the disciplines involved with that.  Be it downhill, xc, enduro, gravity enduro etc. etc.
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 14 at 8:40am
Athletics at even club level is massively bossy.  There are rules about clothing, logos, numbers, spikes, equipment, headphones, iPods, coaches on the pitch, lanes, equipment.....much bossier than sailing.
the same, but different...

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Andymac View Drop Down
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Posts: 852 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 14 at 9:21am
Here's a game without (many) rules;

The rules in this game are quite short, the main rules which must be followed are:

  • No tresspassing on other peoples property.
  • The ball must not go into the churchyards, Memorial gardens or building sites
  • You must not intentionally cause harm to others.
  • The ball must not be hidden from view in bags or rucksacks.
  • The ball must not be transported in a motorised vehicle.
  • A ball is goaled when it is tapped three times onto one of the stone plinths. If it is goaled before 5pm then another ball may be thrown up.
  • Play ends at 10pm and the ball is returned to the Green Man public house.

Anyone recognize it?




Edited by Andymac - 31 May 14 at 9:22am
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 14 at 10:42am
Originally posted by Telltale

It would be equally difficult to provide examples of more pedantic sports rather than less.


That sounds as if you're suggesting that sailing is much the same as every other sport. I agree! People are people, no matter what sport they play. There's always a minority who try and game the rules to take advantage, resulting in more rules and more detail, there's always a minority who get over enthused about enforcing the rules in situations where its not appropriate, there's always disagreement about whether rules should be enforced, all the rest of it.
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Posts: 392 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 14 at 10:50am
It is the bumptious , officious members of organisations who power the wheels. Captain Main-wearing was a true British hero. I would be a useless Class Chairman or Commodore because I am idle and feckless. These well organised individuals, usually men, are the backbone of amateur organisations and we need them.

Perhaps minor infringements of Class rules are not important but what those infringements may lead to could be important. However those of us who are not good at rules do have an important purpose, that is to be a thorn in the side of the organising types...to redress the balance someone has to.

When I was in Berlin recently i saw a policeman with an earring and a Mohican haircut. That confused me and I gave him a wide berth, give me a shaven headed brute any day.
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Posts: 437 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 14 at 2:57pm
iitick 

 there are 4 types of people 

lazy and thick 

lazy and bright 

hardworking and thick 

hardworking and bright 


in some roles  the best person for the role is the 'lazy and bright' one as s/he will find the most efficicent  and least bullsh*t ridden  way of doing it 
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 14 at 3:14pm
And the one you absolutely do not want is "hardworking and thick", as they'll just cause problems!
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