The Fuller Number

Originally posted by AlexM Hasn't the Laser moved from 1078 in 2009 to 1088 in 2014 which is about 30sec in an hours race.... Hardly banditry

Sorry Alex, perhaps that wasn't well explained. Currently I would agree that the laser number is about right. However when you look at Peaky's graph it shows the laser variants increasing in PY under his system while most other regually sailed club boats like the solo, streaker, phantom, etc would drop in py number - so possably another minute or so of 'help' for the laser. In this situation, on a smallish lake, I would suggest that the laser could become a bit of a py bandit - assuming laser fleet sizes did not hold the laser sailor back.

Alternatively you could suggest a theory that the laser fleet nationally has a higher standard of sailor than say the phantom or solo and that is why it's py would go up using peaky's system while the phantom and solo py would drop. Although I think I might be reading too much into the results here.

Peaky, to gauge the scale of the py adjustments it would be interesting to see your graph with the y scale limited to say 900 to 1250 to make the scale more readable. Either way I agree with others and I think this goes to show that the current rya system probably isn't far out.

Again looking at Peaky's graph, I think the real py bandit under this system would probably be the Europe!

It doesn't matter how often you explain, it doesn't make it right for a boat handicap to change purely because muppets are now sailing it in benign conditions or event organisers are trying to swell their ranks with it.

A handicap changing because some physical alteration to the craft has taken place is one thing, a group of individuals changing it to suit their location or event structure is something else entirely and not what the spirit of the system was meant to encourage.

Originally posted by AlexM and i bet a Phantom could leave a Blaze for dead in certain other sea courses..... Take a set of your results and plug different PY's in it and then come back to us with your findings..

Which was precisely why it was OK, the weather made the decision plus tactical considerations whereas now the Phantom may as well not compete since it's strong point has been removed which is what the current system is doing. Because the majority of returns come from light weather inland results the entire system is now weighted against boats that perform well and or is enhancing the performance artificially of those boats that don't, thereby messing up small sea clubs or events on the sea that do not have the time or the resources to apply the technical ministrations that are required.

Originally posted by AlexM Hasn't the Laser moved from 1078 in 2009 to 1088 in 2014 which is about 30sec in an hours race.... Hardly banditry

Depends on your perception and pov, given when I first took this pastime up a Laser consistently won our series in 2002, 3,4 at 1078, you should try watching what happens when it gets into surf and a half decent breeze.

You inland monkeys who can't sail worth a toffee spend most of your time in the bar if theres so much as a ripple on the pond then with all this extra free time send in loads of returns based on wind speeds of 5 mph, so are slowing it down artificially is what's happening.. There's been no change to it's length, weight or sail size yet year after year allegedly it's slower and you tell me there's some logic to follow in this?

Then simultaneously this inland statistical abuse is saying a boat that quite honestly is a bit of a handful and struggles in wind and chop (Phantom) is getting faster, whilst the boat that did quite closely match it, (The Blaze) is not anything like as quick, yet in reality can leave a Phantom for dead on certain sea courses.

Edited by iGRF - 24 Apr 14 at 9:40am

Interesting numbers.