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Start Line Collision |
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ohFFsake ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 04 Sep 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 219 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 15 Apr 14 at 12:53pm |
Incident on the start line of a recent race.
W & L both on Starboard, approaching pin end of start line. L accelerates and gains an overlap on W from clear astern. contact ensued between the two boats and W protested. L claims gave W had ample room to keep clear but failed to do so, in order to avoid starting prematurely W claims L failed to give room to keep clear. Q1. In the absence of independent witnesses, where does the onus of proof lie? As a secondary issue, after the collision W made repeated loud hails to L, using foul and abusive language. This was witnessed by many other sailors some of whom were juniors (including L's crew). No separate protest was made about this at the time Q2. Would it be appropriate for L to bring this to the attention of the protest committee, in respect of the original incident? Any case law and guidance on appropriate penalties would be fantastic. Protest has not been heard yet. |
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tgruitt ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 Dec 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2479 |
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I would say L is fine. What did W expect to happen if there was a gap to leeward for L to sail in to?
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Needs to sail more...
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Is there a definition here? Abusive enough to be banned on television? So foul it's not included the OED? Was it of a racist, sexist or of an anti-religious slur in nature? Or just are we talking just an intensifying adjective like 'f**king'... which you can find in a One Direction song and on the lips of bronze medal winning Olympic Sailors?
Edited by kneewrecker - 15 Apr 14 at 1:18pm |
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AlexM ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Jan 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 857 |
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Or like your user name... ;-)
I wouldn't say L was fine, it's up to them to prove they gave time and opportunity for W to keep clear once the overlap had been established |
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Neal_g ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Oct 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 323 |
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the fact L came from clear astern and went to leeward of W after the start lead to a no right to luff, so in theory the rules apply from the prepartory flag as L came from clear astern she had the option to go to windward therefore no right to luff W
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(Redoubt Sc)
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Time Lord ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 03 Dec 13 Location: Warwickshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 301 |
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No mention that it was after the start and therefore L has every right to luff up to head to wind and if this forces W over the line then it is tough on W.
As for the language, it would be up to one of the other boats or the race committee to protest W - by the sound of it there were plenty of people within earshot. Also presumably W was too busy swearing to actually protest and hence his protest should be thrown out as W did not protest at the first opportunity but relied on Anglo Saxon language instead. |
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Merlin Rocket 3609
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ohFFsake ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 04 Sep 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 219 |
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Yes it was ore start so no proper course requirement, the question is simply that in a "my word against yours" situation over whether sufficient room was given, which boat has the burden of proof.
Regarding the bad language, perhaps I could turn that on its head by asking what would constitute sufficiently bad for a pc to consider it actionable. Pretty sure that w did hail protest at soonest opportunity |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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AIUI the RRS has pretty much abandoned the burden of proof bit because it gave an advantage to blatant liars. The PC has to listen to everyone and make their best effort to understand what really happened.
The amount of bad language that would be considered inappropriate depends very much on the fleet and circumstances. A Sydney Skiff fleet racing out of earshot of the shore would be held to very different standards to a fleet featuring lots of youth sailors sailing on a river in clear earshot of hundreds of passers by. In the case of a rule 69 the process is different: its not strictly a protest. Best to read it up here |
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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That's a good question, but considering Ainslie effectively got away with decking someone on a media boat, I think we can probably take our chances in calling someone a c*nt if we really feel it necessary in the heat of the moment. (Although I've never met anyone on the water who would fit that level of verbal description personally, that delightful term would be reserved for far lower life form than fellow competitors, even those considered a bit of at**t...) |
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deadrock ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 24 Jun 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 85 |
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Unknown information:
Was this before the start, or after? Was W stationary (or almost) on the line, without any way on to manoeuvre? Did L luff?
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