Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Icon Class Association |
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 09 Apr 14 at 1:07pm |
If you weren't such a vicious troll you may have (1) read my initial post and seen that it was a question, not a statement; and (2) seen that my second and third posts were replies to direct comments to me about issues where I have the information directly from the designer concerned. I did not actually venture any opinion about what the Icon PY should be. That is clear to anyone who can read my posts. Thirdly, the Icon is a development of a boat that I have been racing against for decades. Edited by Chris 249 - 09 Apr 14 at 1:17pm |
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blaze720 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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Gentlemen .. and the rest of you.
![]() Some of you who earlier professed not to promote 'opinions' are now in fact doing just that. I'll join in there but you state we need more numbers... So why not help out in a practical way ? .... take an Icon for a few weeks and race it yourself .. at your club, against the boats you know already and on the bits of water you sail on. Some of you should be very able to sail the boat to its potential - so why not simply do so ? If 969 is a reasonable average number quite a few should be achieving figures 30 or 40 point below on a regular basis and others, at worst if the distribution is fairly standard, 30 or 40 points the other way. I'm saying that both as a builder .. and as a regular club sailor. And for the record you should never get into any class because of the handicap imo.. If you sail Icon and 'buy into' the concept you will enjoy the boat for what it is ... Mike L. Edited by blaze720 - 09 Apr 14 at 1:09pm |
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Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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Great idea, Mike.
What the Icon PY needs is lots of data emanating from venues away from its ideal killing ground at Burghfield, a poor venue for kited and trapeze boat competition.
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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except that if dinghy racing is your thing, and PY racing is all that your club offers, then you'd be an absolute fool not to consider the handicap as part of the buying process.
Edited by kneewrecker - 09 Apr 14 at 2:06pm |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Handicaps can and will change, so its pretty foolish buying a boat because of the handicap unless you are proposing to buy into a different class every year.
Edited by JimC - 09 Apr 14 at 2:19pm |
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Hence why I said as part of the decision making process. The main benefit of handicap racing is to sail the boat you choose to, not what is prescribed, however handicap and suitability tend to go hand-in-hand with good boat choices. There would be no point buying this boat for sailing at some of the smaller clubs around here, despite it seemingly being very suitable for their size and prevailing conditions. At sub 1000 PY it is simply not allowed on the water. Secondly if the majority of the handicap fleet are in the 1000-1200 bracket- RS200s, L2000s, older 12s, Phantoms, Finns etc, (boats which on the face of it, should be good fun to race against in an Icon), yet this PY bumps you up into racing with 49ers and Cherubs in a faster category, well frankly, that is also something to consider when purchasing. Sure you could ask to move fleets, but I'm not convinced that will go down so well in some clubs who set the fleet thresholds for good reason.
Edited by kneewrecker - 09 Apr 14 at 2:27pm |
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Well if I can find a crew for Sunday it looks like I shall be sampling the Icon..... anyone fancy a trip to Hunts?
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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In a club of RS500 trapezed boats on Open water rated at 975, now I'm not one to advocate folk buying something because it's a bandit and they'll get unfair advantage, but I'm certainly never going to advocate the opposite, you're job should be getting some half decent lawyer to put an end to all this. Send them some legal missive, or threat of it, that will make someones eyes water, that's your job as the manufacturer and person tasked with marketing it and protecting your customer base, not ego tripping it around some puddle potentially causing this issue, if I might be as bold, given the whole thing has made me very mad indeed now my crew has recovered to the point we could have owned one, but certainly not now. [/viscious troll] Edited by iGRF - 09 Apr 14 at 2:44pm |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Instead of ignoring GRF's "bring in the Lawyers" thing like normal, lets think it through. A builder sues the RYA for loss of earnings due to interpretation of data from race returns, and wins. What happens next? Oh, no PY system at all.
Talk about blowing ones head off when scratching ones ear with a revolver... |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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A fact based system across the entire board, not the random thing you have at the moment which 'targets' contentious puddle hoppers.. whilst ignoring the coast and older classes.. Manufacturers bear all the risk and should have the right and ability to design to and target a particular performance rating, without having some ill informed buffer or malgorthym software based screw up damaging the companies profitability and rendering customers investments as worthless. Edited by iGRF - 09 Apr 14 at 2:55pm |
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