Icon Class Association

The problem is, not ALL classes send their best to the GL events. Those that do will be comparing handicaps to classes that don't, so immediately there are massive statistical headaches in assuming anything about those taking part.

Yes, there are problems, yes there are many ways of working on the raw data, and yes, 100 results from one boat gives a totally different set of stats to 100 boats with 1 result each. However, the more returns there are, the less likely the extremes are going to distort the numbers that come out.

Wouldn't expect the ranting from a well respected boat builder, really, simply because an EN isn't quite as nice as he would hope. It is an EN. If it puts people off buying the boat, because they think they won't be a handicap bandit, then I would suggest they would be the kind of buyer who would be fickle anyway, and would simply blame the boat for their own inadequecies as sailors, whinge about it online and cause more trouble for boat sales in the long term.

Aaaaaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do we have to go around and around this again?

Get your club to change the number to something sensible. Given that there is only an EN, it shouldn't be too difficult to convince your Sailing Sec. To trial a different number. If after a couple of races it's clear that it's out a bit then adjust it. Within a series you should get a feel for where it ought to be, but bear in mind that it is highly unlikely that someone in a new boat will be sailing to the real PY, so if they are a couple of places lower than where they used to place in their old boat, then that's probably fair.

Graeme, in your lofty new position of commode why don't you set an example and get your club to start adjusting its numbers?

Originally posted by craiggo Graeme, in your lofty new position of commode why don't you set an example and get your club to start adjusting its numbers?

I'm going to try and get something going, we can't possibly have Phantoms racing off 1002 or whatever it is, i shall try and emulate what the lake boys do, they have some sail racer programme thing they put the results in after the race and it spits out all sorts of bollox, it's probably wrong and the reason all this crap is happening but if I give it a go, at least I'll begin to understand the mess you fools have gotten yourselves into and how..

This can't go on, it's bloody absurd, but it's more needless effort and there are other things I'd sooner do after a race, involving drink and talking bollox.

Edited by iGRF - 08 Apr 14 at 9:37pm

Yep- not withstanding the fact that several clubs around here would ban it anyway with a low number like that. Weird really... It looked great at a similar size pond at the FOM

Originally posted by mongrel What would have been so wrong to use the number being used by the builder for a year to see whether its realistic?

Needs saying again. PY is a service to the clubs, not the builders. The clubs have used various numbers for the last three of years, mostly a lot lower than the comical 1020 and their data has come back with the number that's been published.

I'm at a loss to understand the whinging to be quite honest. Its got a more sophisticated hull shape than the Merlin, its significantly longer than the Merlin, its lighter and its got a far better rig. Even given the absence of a tiny kite why on earth wouldn't you expect it to be quicker than a Merlin? Back in 1981 when the Tasar was pretty new it was the equivalent of 30 points faster than the Merlin of the day. How come its a surprise that the first cut of the Icon PY, which unlike the Tasar is longer then the Merlin, is coming up with a similar offset to current Merlins? Although it hasn't so far, it wouldn't be entirely surprising to see it coming out faster than an RS400, seeing as it should be significantly faster upwind and on two sail legs, and the 400 isn't precisely a rocketship on runs.

Edited by JimC - 09 Apr 14 at 8:15am