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4000 Facelift by Rooster

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iitick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 4000 Facelift by Rooster
    Posted: 25 Mar 14 at 5:31pm
A gentleman GP sailor I know was telling me that his very successful kitesurfing granddaughter (Hanna Whiteley) has been bought a new VW Camper by her sponsors.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 14 at 5:36pm
not a bad looking girl is she?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 14 at 5:57pm
Do you think it is easier to get sponsors if you look the part?

Don't bother answering that...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 14 at 6:23pm
I can't see what you are on about, how could that have any effect on sponsorship  Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 14 at 6:24pm
The year before last Hannah turned up at our club in the rain....every inch the California girl...from Stockport. She crewed for her grandfather and was mightily amused by his WW2 shorts.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 14 at 7:06pm
Are there special shorts only used by grandfathers sailing GP14's? We have had that situation (with granddaughter) at our club, too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 14 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by getafix

Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

difficult decision putting a carbon stick on it though. It makes it instantaneously an expensive boat / upgrade to an old boat. And probably kills any chance of lift off. But without it there is a chance it might gain some traction.

IMPO "traction" is what you'll need after hauling one around on shore and dealing with the loads from the mainsheet, 'interesting' controls layout and other foibles.... along with the ISO, Buzz, 5000 and Spice, the 4000 is of it's day, and that day, in my opinion, has past, RIP


The 4000 is still a fast boat.
Club sailors can enjoy it when 400's become hard work up wind.
If you want a single trapeze boat, it's still a good option if you're too old/heavy to fit in with the 29ers.
It would be intreresting to see what people could do with them if the class rules were a little less prescriptive about controls etc.
They're not that heavy, except when the equalisation comes into play. Perhaps that is the bit that's had its day?
The Buzz is too slow for a trapeze boat, the 5000 has no market because the 800 and 49er have twin traps for big boys covered, the Iso seemed an Ok boat but why would you choose it over a 4000 or 500?
Do we need carbon masts for 4000's? Probably not, as it is, it's still the fastest thing most people will find accessible. It may not look too bling ashore, but get it going in F5 and it looks OK to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 14 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by yellowwelly

Originally posted by getafix

Would a new sail design and perhaps a new builder have a few people still being willing to shell out for a re-vamp 600?  Ditto 300?

Well the 300 is going into production at Beer, (it was anyway, just now you buy from the OEM rather than the marketing company- in theory anyway.)  No such confirmations for the 600, although I guess if you pay them money they'll make you one.

Unlike the 300, I don't think the 600 has the same cult status- it's a stepping stone boat to the MPS/700, or a trainer/second boat for a skiff sailor.  I don't think anyone's bought a new one for the best part of a decade, why would you... as Simon says, the old ones are better quality beaters than nigh on anything else out there.  2 grand buys a good boat.  

However on this forum there's a post about a trap boat suitable for a 97kg that's lighter than the contender.  Add some chines to the hull form, make the sail look nicer and wouldn't the 600 fit that brief?

So, change the hull and the sail, keep the mast and a bunch of heavy ali tubes and some so-so foils?
Better to either replace it completely if the market is there (and we've actually learned anything since 1995), or leave it alone.
I enjoyed owning mine, but if I was in that situation again, I'd want a spinnaker.

There are plenty of keelboat classes which have successfully started building new boats after a serious gap in production, but I think once a dinghy class loses continuity, it's hard to see the 10 year old boats as being level with the shiny new ones, even without a facelift. But most of these classes are not principally about fleet racing anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 14 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by boatshed

I suppose you could say the 300 and the 600 ticked the boxes many on this forum desire.   Light weight, good performance, well built, modern looking etc.    But they have been rejected by lack of sales, so, I pity any dinghy manufacturer trying to launch any new boats.     They are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't.

Maybe it's just a demographic thing.   Not enough yoof around that want to sail edgy boats or can be @rsed to put in a bit of effort to get the hang of them.   And when the  yoof pack in sailing their Lasers, they probably want something a little  more stable, technical  and with good class racing.    The Solo ticks all those boxes.    The Aero and Zero don't.

Since this thread has now veered off course, I see the Int Canoe as the perfect boat for older sailors.   Very technical, quick, plenty of bimbling opportunities, sufficiently radical and a bleddy great plank to perch on ( or indeed lie on) as you whiz along.    Trouble is there are non to be had 2nd hand and quite serious money new with a long lead time.    If RS wanted to tap into the older dinghy racing market, then a narrow, slippery, Canoe type one design would be an opportunity.   No kite but a bigger mainsail to help the heavier helms.  I say bring back the plank.    Wink



The Solo is one of the best examples out there of a class which resists change as hard as possible.  Ironically, for many of the same reasons that manufacturers like RS feel unable or are unwilling to change boats over time that then leaves them having to kill them off eventually due to falling or no sales.  I don't doubt it was beyond RS to update either 300 or 600 over time, the fundamentals of both are still good, but the clamour over changes to the 400 a while back shows how reactionary most in this sport are about the kind of updates that would have kept both interesting to new buyers.......??.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 14 at 7:51pm
The 300 and 600 are completely different... The 600 was naturally replaced by the 700, experiments with a kite on the 6 proved fruitless, IIRC it was Paul Bayliss who was doing the driving for RS in it when the Olympic Singlehanded Skiff evaluation took place.

What is the successor of the 300? The 100... I think not. Certainly not the Aero... It's still a niche class for a cult following. I hope there's enough resolve in the fleet and builder to take it to a second innings. But the proof will be in the pudding... new boat sales, initially from the current owners. I can't see why B@B would continue to support a class if there was zero returns in it anymore than the behemoth RS would do when they 'owned' it.

Edited by yellowwelly - 25 Mar 14 at 7:52pm
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