New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: PY Lag Time
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

PY Lag Time

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910>
Author
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: PY Lag Time
    Posted: 14 Mar 14 at 3:58pm
Yup, sometimes they are things of antiquity - that is the point.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
SUGmeister View Drop Down
Sailwave Moderators
Sailwave Moderators
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 265
Post Options Post Options   Quote SUGmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 14 at 4:03pm
Interesting reading about Merlins and their PYs. With their comparatively puny white sail area of 9.96 sq mtr they are clearly super highly efficient, I wonder what other boats have the inverse performance ratio between high performance and small sail area, obvs other than the IC or Moth.
Simon SUGmeister
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
Back to Top
Oli View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 23 Mar 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1020
Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 14 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Does anyone on here actually ever get beaten by a vintage merlin and feel they've been done over, or is this a purely theological objection?


As I see it PY should aim to accommodate al boats, intra-class, inter-class or no class.
It would be sensible for classes like the Cherub, I14, Imoth to have age related numbers too. But I doubt there is the data to support it or the number of people racing to demand it.
I'm a great believer in inclusive racing, if someone wants to race say a GP14 singlehanded, then a bit of guidance for the handicapper can only be a good thing.
The issuer of whether older boats should get an allowance for wear and tear, as opposed to design progress is a different question. I can see both sides of that one. A clapped out floppy GRP boat is not going to keep up, but I've not heard of any clubs addressing that succesfully?
As for allowances for tired sails, that's a minefield, as lots of club racers keep their best sails for nice days and open meetings.

It does, its up to the clubs to put in a difference in rig or whatever when they upload to pys.  I would suggest that any development class puts together a table of their boats so that the members when handicap racing can go to their race officer/class captain/sail sec and say id like to return a number specific to my type of boat please.

for example in the merlins you could have 
full classic
classic epoxy
classic epoxy modern rig
modern
full carbon 

its up to the class association to define the guidelines but then at the very least you will return a number for your type, then when enough data is collected by the pys site they will have a national number to give.  

we have two for the 49er new rig and old rig, two for the national 18, we could have more and will do im sure.


Edited by Oli - 14 Mar 14 at 4:09pm
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 14 at 4:14pm
I'm not at all sure that is the real sail area of a Merlin. From a quick glance at the rules I think they may be one of the very few classes that still measures triangles, not real sail area, and it does it with a weird formula that appears to relate max sail area to luff length in some way.
Back to Top
SUGmeister View Drop Down
Sailwave Moderators
Sailwave Moderators
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 265
Post Options Post Options   Quote SUGmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 14 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by JimC

I'm not at all sure that is the real sail area of a Merlin. From a quick glance at the rules I think they may be one of the very few classes that still measures triangles, not real sail area, and it does it with a weird formula that appears to relate max sail area to luff length in some way.


I'm sure you're right, but I do recall as a wee young lad that the Ent sails were bigger than Merlins

http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/forum/main/topic.asp?topic=2729&forum=main&comments=5&page=1&sort=5&order=1&search=sail%20area

http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/forum/main/topic.asp?topic=3103&forum=main&comments=24&page=1&sort=5&order=1&search=sail%20area


Edited by SUGmeister - 14 Mar 14 at 4:21pm
Simon SUGmeister
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 14 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by JimC

I'm not at all sure that is the real sail area of a Merlin. From a quick glance at the rules I think they may be one of the very few classes that still measures triangles, not real sail area, and it does it with a weird formula that appears to relate max sail area to luff length in some way.


All I know, they seem to get bigger every time they go out..
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 14 at 5:19pm
I just had a go at calculating the real area of a merlin sail based on the published rules, but it was more effort than I was prepared to put in. I reckon the total area is at least 1sqm more than the figure the rule gives, and I wouldn't be suprised if it were more.

[later - think I figured out the calcs a bit better, I make it that the roach is a good 2.3m2 extra, then there's also foot round in main and jib, any roach in the jib etc etc.)

Edited by JimC - 14 Mar 14 at 6:29pm
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 14 at 5:35pm
Of course, one of the wonderful things about the PY system is that we don't need to know the sail area to calculte the PY. If we were using a measurment system, just imagine the hassle.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
Punky View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 11 Feb 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 90
Post Options Post Options   Quote Punky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 14 at 6:07pm
I'm pretty sure the Merlin is just a smudge under 14m2 in real terms.
Back to Top
transient View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 21 Aug 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 715
Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 14 at 6:28pm
....Mmm, unmeasured sail area.


having rules that can be bent without breaking them.....Loads of folk enjoy that aspect. Each to their own.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy