PY Lag Time

Cherubs and Moths both publish numbers for older boats. The Cherub ones at least are based on what the published number was when the boats were new, with divisions based on major design innovations and rule changes.

Originally posted by Punky The hull shape rules for the Merlin haven't changed in yonks, it is just designs getting better.  Therefore it is not much different to playing with tolerances on Fireballs, Streakers etc.

There is a considerable difference between hull shapes in Merlins than simply playing the tolerances. As an example, the main difference between a Winder Canterbury Tales mod 2 and mod4 is that the bow has been dropped by 3 inches - hardly playing the tolerances!

I agree that the main rules governing hull shape eg overall length, maximum overall width and waterline width have not changed for many years BUT you can change the hull shape a heck of a lot within those limits compared with the minimal tweaks that can be achieved by playing with tolerances.

Take a look some time at a Canterbury Tales and an older design from the 1980s or earlier. The Tales will have much less rocker and a wider flatter stern to assist earlier planing.

Just to stir things up, what I would like to see are three PNs for each boat split into a) the open sea b) large open waters c) small inland restricted waters of less than say 100 acres.

Will probably be told that there is not sufficient data but you never know..

Dropping the forefoot further into the water - it does have an effect.

Originally posted by Punky 3" is precision engineering in the world of Fireballs! I guess I just can't see why the owner of an outdated Merlin is any more entitled to an amended handicap than the the owner of a Bladerider is, for example.

All a matter of philosophy, I suppose. One view is that what boat you choose is up to you, and if you choose a 70's Merlin or Solo, expect do do in handicap racing as well as you would in class racing.

Another is that in handicap racing, we have the chance to handicap within classes, so why not give a Smoker's Satisfaction Merlin Rocket design its own handicap? To do this might require help from the CA, as the returns going back to the PYAG don't distinguish between designs.

Of course, the latter approach then runs into lots of practical problems, ranging from finding an average amount slower the boat might be to what to do if the boat has been modified.

Take that one step further, and you might ask whether an old Holt GRP Solo could be set its own handicap, given that it is far slower than the modern version. Call it a "Holt GRP Solo" if you like, and issue an experimental number, see how it goes.

The advantage of that approach is that each boat should get a handicap nearer its true potential, and we are therefore looking at sailor skill to find a winner.

The counter argument is that why should someone in a £200 clunker expect to do well?

The cvrda is set up for £200 clunkers - and £200 clunkers that people have spent 100s of hours and £ turning back into things of beauty, but which will still be only the speed they were when new, all those years before.

I'm not sure the latter approach works in the wider world, but the middle approach has some merit. Experimental numbers, rather than ones set in stone from the CA, are the way to go, though. - after all, if the CA says that the handicap for Merlin No6 is -100 off the new one, or whatever, what happens when the new one changes? Fair in a way, as the PY is an average of all the boats, but unfair in other ways. Better, therefore, for the Merlin (pre-amalgamation) to have an EN, and for owners to compare notes on how handicaps and results at clubs are going.