Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
DINGHY SHOW - photos |
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maxibuddah ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Mar 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1760 |
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Grf, the phantom may have modernised in the rig and sail choice but it never changed the weight of the boat, that was always 61kgs.
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Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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yellowwelly ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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No, actually I was simply trying to work out if anyone was still buying them- that tends to be a good test of how much life a class has left in it, especially SMODs. If it seems like a loaded question, well i guess it is... the Buzz was part of a family of boats that had one of the largest marketing spends in recent times (for recreational sailboats). Yet despite that, it couldn't become a commercial success- the market found other options and a quick look through Y&Y Buzz pages gives the feeling the class has been stagnating ever since. But rather than look to make incremental improvements during the necromancy - e.g. the Cirrus Blaze - another from the same original stable; or indeed the marginally lighter Vortex - now produced by White Formula, or the Byte with the CII which once produced by White Formula (small world hey), the wizards behind the new Buzz are allegedly rolling it out as per 1995... it failed once, in a market more receptive and less knowledgeable of this type of sailing, why on earth would a new punter invest in it again... even if it is cheap? I guess if we knew that a number, even a small number, had been sold new, it might help to validate the 'it ain't broke, why fix it' mentality.
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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When either trade unions or the management get too strong, things start to go wrong - same applies in the case of dinghies - the builder needs to listen to the people who already own the boat, but at the same time the owners have to understand that to attract new owners in the face of a changed market, it may be neccessary to make changes. Rather than a "No", CA's will often provide informed feedback to a builder as to what works and what doesn't. The Blaze class has been exceptionally good at this from what I have seen from the outside. Many CA's don't see that there is a problem until it is too late, though, and the class has gone past the point of return, and there are builders who have changed too much, and not only lost the current sailors, but failed to attract new ones.
Looking back in history, the Minisail is a good example of this, having gone from 50+ nats attendances to vanished off the face of the earth in just a few short years. The internet has helped gather a few enthusiasts together, but if classes want to be more than that, then both builders and CA's need to look at the lessons from history. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Very good analogy actually. As you'd know if you'd ever worked in the sort of very large organisation where the senior executives are utterly divorced from the effects of the decisions they make, and trouser themselves endless bumper pay rises and bonuses and keep the staff who actually provide the product and serve the customers on a pay freeze... It reminds me very much of the Laser situation, now you mention it! |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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I was only trying to help the fella with some commercial logic, I know commercial logic and class associations never mix, I learned that the day my first class voted against my silly suggestion that windsurf boards should be permitted to be raced with footstraps..
However here goes, instead of that super tanker, they build it lighter, very light if they can, so me and my crew could actually lift it. It is then recognised as new lighter therefore perceived as faster, even though if you read Medway Maniacs accurate description it probably isn't that much faster across the entire wind range, owners of old boats would then sell theirs 2nd hand, thereby attracting new comers and the class grows, do you think the Phantom class would have grown the size it is today had they not modernised their boat? Class Associations would always be screwed at every turn, they serve no purpose other than to protect their own selfish interest, the best analogy? Trade Unions.. |
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In-a-Flap ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 04 Mar 14 Location: Warsash SC Online Status: Offline Posts: 7 |
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Hi Rupert I couldn't agree more. Different boats for different purposes and for a different sets of people. (We are best suited to lower key but nevertheless exciting sailing - eg young families and people who stick to the just the occasional all night partying). And I agree that we should not be, nor do I think we are, averse to rule changes for the better - especially where it makes the boat easier to handle and better to sail but not where makes them less fun or forces out older boats by making them uncompetitive. |
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Richard20Sailing ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 30 Jul 11 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 22 |
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Thank you Peaky for uploading a picture of the modern Flying Ant. I think the best way to understand the boat is to google the original flying ant class from Australia and imagine it with a modern asymmetric rig. I do hope it takes off and we can challenge the heavy, slow experience of the feva.
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To many shackles are never enough.
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In-a-Flap ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 04 Mar 14 Location: Warsash SC Online Status: Offline Posts: 7 |
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Hi YellowWelly I don't know how many have sold but in any case it is difficult to work out what you are getting at here: What I can say is that we have a great boat, that many people love so much that they have owned, raced and had fun sailing theirs for very many years. To me this is a mark of a successful boat.
We also have well attended and regular class events both in UK and abroad and would welcome more people of a like mind joining us. Again, to me this is the mark of a successful boat.
If, of course, you are proposing a far more simplistic logic of ‘lots sold = good boat, few sold = bad boat’ then I am afraid we have reached a point where I will simply have to disagree with you. |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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I liked sailing the Buzz when I crewed one years ago - even did a Nationals. Nothing at all like sailing a 29er, either in the social scene (which involved partying with people old enough to drink) or in the way the boat sails. The hull might be "old fashioned" compared to the Bethwaite wonder designs, but it was more user friendly as far as I was concerned.
Having said that, I'd have taken the opportunity to change a few things to attract new sailors, not just current and past ones, and I'd have hoped that current sailors would understand that the odd update (especially ones which can be put on to old hulls) is a way to keep the class going. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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...and the 3000!
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