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Blue One View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Feb 14 at 11:09am
Originally posted by yellowwelly

I think it was a wing-tip rumour- so more foil assist than full foiling.  I guess there could some merit to it, Jo Richards has form with the DCB N12 after all.

I also heard that RS are working with a american foiling expert to get the wing tips just right - some bloke called Doug... anyone know anything?


LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 14 at 11:29am
Can someone explain why an old National 12 thing would want something as sophisticated as that tilting rudder, and what on earth do they expect to achieve with it, are they a bit nosey?
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 14 at 11:53am
Originally posted by iGRF

Can someone explain why an old National 12 thing would want something as sophisticated as that tilting rudder, and what on earth do they expect to achieve with it, are they a bit nosey?

From people who are 'in the know'.

They say the t-foil rudder make the boat much more stable especially in a blow. Being short they are quite prone to pitching and the t-foil helps to counteract this.

they also said that they would not gybe a N12 in anything above a F4 without a t-foil rudder as the chances of a swim were around 80-90%....

This is a from someone who is a very handy sailor too.
Paul
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 14 at 12:04pm
Ah, but why does it need to tilt? I can understand the addition of a t foil to increase stability, but you couldn't possibly adjust that in any way that is going to do anything other than increase drag surely. All it's going to do is work like a trim tab to adjust fore and aft pitch and the moment you pitch it down to keep the nose down, it'll increase drag, quite dramatically.

Or is that the idea, they pitch nose down into the gybe?
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 14 at 12:06pm
because National 12s are awesome, and frankly Graeme, if you and your littlest got in one, you'd have an absolute ball of a time.... even without the kite.  Their entire class ethos would actually inspire you... and they'd love some of you hare-brained sh*t in return, just as long as you were prepared to laugh at failure and success in equal measure. 

But anyway, back to SMODs.... 


Edited by yellowwelly - 13 Feb 14 at 12:06pm
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 14 at 12:12pm
Tfoil can a) improve pitch stability and b) improve performance from suprisingly low speeds due to a number of phenomena:
1) reducing displacement of vessel - the foil, if high aspect, is more efficient at carrying load than a hull above, say 5 kts, so it makes sense to load it up
2) if near the surface it can destructively interfere with the stern wave, flattening it down and reducing wave drag
3) on a short, rockered boat, the foil operates in a way similar to  a spoiler on a 911 or some such, that the total force vector from the foil (i.e. including drag) acts in the direction of motion - i.e. even the drag works for you.

I would be very surprised if the RS has a tfoil system, as, if done well it will add about a grand to the cost, and if designing from scratch you'd have a lot less cost adding a foot or so of length to get the same performance hike.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 14 at 2:08pm
In other words it's making up for the design shortfalls of the hull, nothing should be 12 ft anyway, stupid length, 14 ft is the minimum length anything should be to go to sea in.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 14 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by jeffers

[QUOTE=iGRF].....

they also said that they would not gybe a N12 in anything above a F4 without a t-foil rudder as the chances of a swim were around 80-90%....

This is a from someone who is a very handy sailor too.


A pre-t-foil N12 at our club seems entirely capable of gybing in any weather I'd care to be out in.
Unless we are talking about a design of 12 that is reliant on the t foil, I don''t think your statement stands up.
It may be the case that if you optimise a hull for use with a t foil, it isn't very good without it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 14 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by jeffers

would not gybe a N12 in anything above a F4 without a t-foil rudder as the chances of a swim were around 80-90%...

Must be a bit of a surprise for the last 50 years of N12 sailors to hear that...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 14 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by iGRF

In other words it's making up for the design shortfalls of the hull, nothing should be 12 ft anyway, stupid length, 14 ft is the minimum length anything should be to go to sea in.

Sunny where you are is it?  Cry
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