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When all boats retire. |
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Do Different 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312 |
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 Topic: When all boats retire.Posted: 09 Feb 14 at 7:49pm |
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Yes I know, rules is rules, but really into two pages! Rule this, rule that, this is exactly what makes my wife think this sport is as dull as ditch water and so often I have to agree with her. Surely to goodness if you've retired you've retired, end of.
Edited by Do Different - 09 Feb 14 at 7:50pm |
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RS400atC
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Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Posted: 09 Feb 14 at 7:01pm |
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Some clubs have different points for RTD and DSQ.
If the boat that finished was protested for receiving outside assistance, she would be DSQ, which might be series entrants plus 1, while retired might be race entrants plus one. If she retired before finishing, that does not seem to alter the fact that she 'finished'. Is there some circumstance where a retiring boat competes the course to get the other boat good points, to get a better series place? Do the rules say you must retire immediately? It does seem wrong that a race is valid when it was only completed with outside assistance. But unless it was done outrageoulsy to win the series, I'd just treat it as one of the vagaries of scoring systems. Some clubs might muddy the waters further by taking places at the previous lap if he'd not finished. |
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JohnW
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Joined: 17 Jul 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 552 |
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Posted: 09 Feb 14 at 6:18pm |
It does perhaps sound like that, but not the case here, I was watching so was neither A nor B - its just the pedant in me wanting to know what the correct answer is. When boat B capsized I assumed that the race would not stand. When I got home I checked the rules and realised that if B was considered to have finished then the race would stand. I have to admit I get confused with the definition of finishing. I think we have had other threads where a boat sails the wrong course but crosses the finish line in accordance with the definition so is still classed as finishing. I guess this is a variation on that. If you retire and then cross the finish line, are you still finishing? |
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AlexM
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Joined: 10 Jan 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 857 |
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Posted: 09 Feb 14 at 6:01pm |
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As soon as the boat receives outside assistance I would of thought they have RTD at that point and it doesn't matter the went on to sail the rest of the course?
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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Posted: 09 Feb 14 at 5:57pm |
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You know John, you sound suspiciously like someone who, having got the answer, doesn't like it...
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JohnW
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Joined: 17 Jul 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 552 |
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Posted: 09 Feb 14 at 5:46pm |
Alex that would be the case normaly, but in this case Boat B crossed the line from course side which meets the criteria for finishing (I think). If one boat finishes and then retires the race would stand (both RTD). If no one finishes then the race is classed as abandoned. So, does their crossing the line count as a finish if they have accepted outside help? |
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AlexM
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Joined: 10 Jan 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 857 |
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Posted: 09 Feb 14 at 5:34pm |
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I thought if there if there are no finishers, there was no race to retire from. So they would get DNC?
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JohnW
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Joined: 17 Jul 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 552 |
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Posted: 09 Feb 14 at 5:10pm |
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If boat B had retired and not crossed the line, none of the boats would have sailed the course, therefore the RRS say that the race is abandoned (rules 35, 90.3).
In this case boat B did cross the line. Is boat B deemed to have retired when they accept assistance from the rescue boat? and therefore did she finish the race. If you retire and then cross the line are you still finishing? Edited by JohnW - 09 Feb 14 at 5:15pm |
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Time Lord
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 03 Dec 13 Location: Warwickshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 301 |
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Posted: 09 Feb 14 at 4:40pm |
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Why should the race be abandoned? Two boats took part but both retired for different reasons. Agree with JimC and Blue One - both scored as retired ie number of boats in the race +1 which is 3. I can see now reason why the race should be abandoned unless your SIs specify this must happen.
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Merlin Rocket 3609
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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Posted: 09 Feb 14 at 3:28pm |
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It may well depend on your sailing instructions. However you're saying that boat B sailed the course and finished in accordance with the rules. Therefore, unless the SIs say differently I would say that the race stands and both boats are scored RET.
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