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Club Starting procedures

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tgruitt View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 10:49am
Originally posted by fab100

It appears Frensham leads the way again.

For decades we've had a programmed start box machine. Tell it how many races and time of first signal and off it goes, sounding horns and lighting lights with no further intervention. As boats cross the finish line, touch a button and it captures their time.

This used to be a custom made thing but a while back was migrated to a PC with the lights running off a serial interface.

Respect to Brian Cushing (RiP) for the original and Bob Castle and Roger Gilbert (yes, the Roger Gilbert) for the latter.

Works perfectly, no confusion possible and human error pretty much eliminated

It even does pursuit races at the click of a button too

Buckets?? I'm flabbergasted





Don't most clubs use an automated start box? We have pursuit and handicap race on a Sunday and it gives a hoot for each entered class in the pursuit (you can add extras) and finishes the race at the correct time. Then just a 5,4,1 countdown and hoot to start... simple!
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 11:49am
Originally posted by tgruitt

Don't most clubs use an automated start box?

We'd need to upgrade our committee boat considerably for any kind of half sophisticated electronics to have much of a life on it I think. And we'd certainly much rather have the hassle of manual systems than a fixed point starts and finish box. Fine for river clubs or odd shaped lakes where you can't run open water courses anyway, but for middle sized open water clubs like ours the convenience of the electronics would compromise the racing too much. Once you have a large committee boat with the capability to run full electronics *and keep them operating* it becomes an option again of course. If money were no object I'd love to have a committee boat with a big digital clock on the side so club sailors wouldn't have to bother with watches.

Edited by JimC - 04 Feb 14 at 11:55am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 11:55am
We still have people with watches, which most of the time is fine, though it is surprisingly easy to start chatting and miss the 1 minute!

Now we have a web cam, if we went automated, the race officer could just stay in bed and do it all on a laptop from home.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ianwat2212 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by sandgrounder


 
I understand that once the trial of the new system is complete the intention is to fully automate it.
 

Correct. The main reason for trialling a manual system first is that a fully automated system which will run reliably on a committee boat in the middle of a large, sometimes windy, lake will not be cheap. 
As it has turned out, the manual system has worked pretty well. As some have said, most people start their watch on zero (or the next hoot after they arrive at the start area) and then wait a safe distance away until 2 mins before their start. Everyone gets away with a minimum of waiting around and it's easy to explain to newcomers.

There seem to be a few people on here who's clubs run an automated system already, are they run from the shore or a committee boat?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote marke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 2:49pm
Ian

At Starcross we have an automated lights system (5 starts - 3 minute intervals) - with additional flashing lights for shorten course, recalls and abandoning.  Linked to a PC based system for race entry, timing and race/series results generation system.  All housed in a shore based OOD's cabin, and all built locally.

When we have committee boat starts we use the standard flags system on the boat - but we synchronise the start of the sequence with the shore based PC system via VHF to allow the lap/finish timing to be done from the shore.  The downside of this is that the course needs to include a pass through of the club line for each lap - but at least the starts can be true(ish).

Next month I hope to start a rewrite of the PC based timing system which will be tablet friendly so may be suitable for use on the committee boat if we can find a suitable weatherproof tablet. I know other folks in the club have been thinking about a lights system for a committee boat (but as others have said this is a much harder problem than a shore based system.

Mark


Edited by marke - 04 Feb 14 at 2:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 3:32pm
We have an automated system that runs the timing and the hooter. It is neither bulky nor difficult to maintain. The whole system sits in a beautifully crafted wooden box (totally unnecessary but that's the way the box was made) which contains a 12v small car battery and under the lid an A5 sized plastic box with the electronics Gubbins which displays the programme being used and the countdown / count up timing and there is also a manual pushbutton control that the RO can use to signal boats over the line.

This plastic box can be unplugged from the wooden battery container and taken off the committee boat up to the duty box for the finish (we normally have the start on the water but finish on a fixed line from duty box). The countup time is displayed in seconds (removes one cause of calculation error) and as a boat finishes, the elapsed time is noted down as finishing hooter is sounded. You can also play back finishing times later but this is only rarely used.

The battery box also has a plug socket so that the battery can be plugged in to a charger at the end of the day. The electronics box has some D batteries which are changed each year.

This has worked for us for quite a few years and if duty crew are in short supply, the race officer can run the start sequence singlehanded. As a well known optimist, I also start my own watch at the first gun - during the finish of one race, a visitor and yours truly were falling about laughing at the antics on the water and managed to knock the electronics box off its perch and dislodged the internal battery connection so losing the time.

As for starting sequence for class starts, we have 1) Menagerie fleet (usually Phantom, Lark & Vago), 2) Merlin Rocket 3) Laser 4) Gp14. 5) Solo. 6) Comet. This sequence enables the various fleets to spread out in reasonably clear wind rather than bunching up when the faster boats catch up the slow.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote stewart smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 6:16pm
I have sailed at Grafham twice with the new system. For me as a cat sailor. Go! when number 9 is showed is simple. I have also been on the committee boat twice working the new system and have found it stright forward. With the shortened starting sequence, we now get 4 races on a Sunday. Well done to Peter Saxton and his fellow club committee members who have worked so hard  to improved the club recently.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 6:17pm
Marke,

Can you PM me with details of Starcross's light system. We have been toying with the idea for about 15yrs and are currently looking into it again and Starcross has been mentioned during numerous occassions.
Details of lights used, timing system etc. would be grateful.

Cheers

Paul
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 7:13pm
I was thinking I ought to write a smartphone app that does the sequence and calls out a countdown and the flags combined with taking a video. Then you could point the camera along the line and have a video of any OCS and have the timing automated... All you'd need to do would be obey instructions on what flags to use (it would call them out too) and it would be portable electronics that wouldn't need to stay on the boat.

Edited by JimC - 04 Feb 14 at 7:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 14 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by JimC

I was thinking I ought to write a smartphone app that does the sequence and calls out a countdown and the flags combined with taking a video. Then you could point the camera along the line and have a video of any OCS and have the timing automated... All you'd need to do would be obey instructions on what flags to use (it would call them out too) and it would be portable electronics that wouldn't need to stay on the boat.

That's a really good idea.
What could possibly go wrong?
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