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| Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Club Racing Formats |
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Rupert 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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 Topic: Club Racing FormatsPosted: 05 Dec 13 at 3:49pm |
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I'm 70kg and my knees are f**ked...
I think the weight thing is over simplistic, as is the sitting out, as I'm one of the world's perchers. For me, it is sitting crouched in the bottoms of boats in light winds for 40 years, and dragging boats up ramps which has done my knees and back. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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yellowwelly
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Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Posted: 05 Dec 13 at 3:02pm |
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someone sounds like Grumpf... My knees were f**ked when I was 17, at around 75kg... ironic, isn't it... probably wouldn't have needed to hike so damn hard if I'd been 90-100kg then
Edited by yellowwelly - 05 Dec 13 at 5:10pm |
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L123456
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Joined: 30 Apr 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 500 |
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Posted: 05 Dec 13 at 2:35pm |
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If you weigh 100kgs and have knee troubles here is a tip ....
Loose some weight !! The human knee is evolved to carry about 70kgs give or take a few ... 100kgs is beyond its capability unless you have 100kgs of all over muscle such that the muscles around the knee are in proportion with your size.
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ChrisI
Posting king 
Joined: 09 Aug 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 143 |
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Posted: 05 Dec 13 at 11:59am |
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Chris249.... 50-70% of the available boats out 'normally' is a huge proportion. At our club we already have a financial 'no race no boat space' incentive but I'm very interested in what other clubs do here. Does your club set a min number of times sailing before forfeiting your space rule or something else?
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yellowwelly
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Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Posted: 05 Dec 13 at 9:31am |
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rock and a hard place huh? There are a few options still, especially as I don't tend to sail dinghies in windy weather (I'd have my windsurfing kit for any likely windy forecast). The other thing to consider is reducing the hiking time between downwind rests... e.g. sailing smaller courses. I'm also planning to corner Dan Holman at some time and get him to elaborate on the hiking techniquey thing he mentioned when Winging It posted the photo of that dude balls-out hiking on a D1. He looked like I felt when hiking hard in my 100... and I have photographic evidence that shows a similar technique when I sail in any breeze, which is clearly a bad habit that needs breaking. (Probably could have done with it at 16/17 in a Laser too...) FWIW I've had zero knee troubles with the Solo, even after the few windy races I've done...
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rb_stretch
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Joined: 23 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 742 |
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Posted: 05 Dec 13 at 9:16am |
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Being of similar weight, that is exactly why I got out of a Solo into something more suited to my weight. Unfortunately for you, anything that is suited to your own weight is likely to need hiking and putting stress on your knees... |
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yellowwelly
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Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Posted: 05 Dec 13 at 8:11am |
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Down there in Oz, where it's sunny, windy and warm I'd be as happy as a pig in filth in a Laser, cadging rides on anything else when I fancied a change..... On a windless puddle in the Midlands, in <5 deg air temp, being ghosted by lightweights- well, it loses its appeal somewhat ;-)
Edited by yellowwelly - 05 Dec 13 at 8:12am |
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sargesail
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Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
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Posted: 05 Dec 13 at 12:14am |
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I sort of get the point about yardsticks and random factors....but it seems to me one of the smaller and more consistent random factors.
But what a wise man Stewart Walker was...
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 04 Dec 13 at 11:57pm |
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To give a perspective from down here in Oz (not saying we do it better!) most clubs run most races on a personal handicap system for an annual pointscore, with only a few drops allowed in order to encourage people to turn up each week. The finishes for annual pointscore races are also normally scored on class or yardstick as well, but the results are normally just for interest's sake as they are not normally scored for any prize.
They also have "club championship" races about once a month, run on a scratch class or yardstick basis and again with only a few drops. The CCs give many sailors a point of differentiation which stops everything just blurring together as Peaky notes. They also tend to attract more boats so there's a bit more of a buzz around at times, something which my old club heightened by running a club BBQ afterwards (normally we move out fairly early to let the club be used for weddings etc, as we do very well out of it financially). Down here we seem to have a much higher average turnout compared to the number of boats in the club than seems to be the case in the UK. At most Sydney clubs the typical weekend race could see a turnout of 50-70% of the boats in the club, tending to the higher end. That would partly be down to geographical and logistical factors, though, such as the fact that the competition for boat storage in clubs means that "no race, no boat space" policies can be very effective carrots to get people sailing. I have a strong feeling that the average turnout is reduced when the club sails on yardstick rather than in classes, but whether that is a chicken or an egg is unclear; obviously if you get a strong regular fleet you are more likely to be able to run classes. It is interesting to look at sports like MTBing and running to see what motivates people there. The MTBers and Gran Fondo roadies seem to be motivated by improving their time or average speed but that's not something we can do in sailing. It would be nice to read up on some more research into motivation to participate in sport and see how that could be applied. Pity ISAF doesn't do research but just chops and changes on blind faith and gut feeling! A bit OT, but I find yardstick racing to be very frustrating since you get so little feedback about your sailing. We still can't work out whether we have been sailing the Tasar badly in our new home or whether the conditions have just been unsuited to it. I've been getting frustrated with myself for sailing badly on the Tasar in the mixed fleets but then again on the rare occasions when I've pulled out the singlehanders the results have been good (ie currently 1/1 with the state champ in Lasers, winning most races on the board) so maybe we are sailing well but the conditions have been wrong for the boat, or maybe I just fall apart when trying to race yardstick? It's not a matter of getting trinkets or not, it's just that some of the joy of doing any sport is getting feedback about whether you are getting it right or not, and when that is blurred by the fact that you are racing different boats a lot of the fun is lost IMHO. As Stewart Walker said, although winning is not the reason for playing the game, it is the object of the game and if the object becomes subject to too many random factors a lot of fun goes out of it for me. Racing yachts under rating systems is similar but less frustrating, personally, because getting a good rating is part of the game. Edited by Chris 249 - 05 Dec 13 at 12:02am |
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Blackie
Groupie 
Joined: 03 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 48 |
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Posted: 04 Dec 13 at 6:29pm |
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We, like many other clubs, use the 50% plus 1 method of series results and have no qualification. So all sailors have some sort of result be it counting just 1 result and a bunch of DNCs or all races sailed... BUT I think the important thing is that the race results update the series results immediately the race is complete. And everyone (maybe a slight exaggeration!) rushes home to check the effect todays race has had on their overal position. I think it keeps the interest there that Peaky is missing so much. It doesn't matter that you're not in the top 3 but that you're beating that so and so who's sailing that bandit boat over there!!!
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