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Post Options Post Options   Quote deadrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Club Racing Formats
    Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 1:34pm
At Oxford (http://www.oxfordsailingclub.com/sailing/club-racing/racing-rules) we have a 55% count-rate of the races actually started, no 'qualification' threshold, and those doing race/rescue duty get Average Points of the races they ranked in as a starter:

- Non-starter: Points equal to the number of starters in the race with the greatest number of starters in the series plus 3.  
- The number of races to count in any series shall be 55% with fractions rounded up to the nearest whole number. Ties shall be broken in favour of the boat with most first places etc. in accordance with Appendix 8 of RRS.

-  When a helmsman misses a race because he/she is on race duty, then he/she will receive average points for that race. Average points will be calculated as being the sum of the points scored divided by the number of races in which the helmsman ranked as a starter. It is the helmsman's responsibility to indicate on the race day results sheet that he was eligible for average points in those races. Failure to do so will result in the helmsman being counted as a non-starter.

Though the system is not perfect it works well enough to get me (and a few others as desperately sad) afloat on a cold Sunday morning with 5-6mph, to get rid of some of those pesky DNSs and poor results.

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2547 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 1:40pm
What scoring system do you use where you have a qualification ?

Don't you just add the point up and see where you come?

If you count a DNC what is the big deal?


Edited by 2547 - 03 Dec 13 at 1:41pm
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 1:41pm
I love the fact that some people still refer to fellow sailors as a 'helmsman'... on a dinghy, on a pond, 100 miles away from the sea.  How quaint.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MattHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 1:49pm
I agree getting more people feeling involved must surely be the aim.  The only danger is if you remove qualification you could have a situation where someone races in two different boats in a series and comes first and second.  Our current method of qualification is half the number of races + 1 (rounding down) which just stops this happening. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by MattHarris

I agree getting more people feeling involved must surely be the aim.  The only danger is if you remove qualification you could have a situation where someone races in two different boats in a series and comes first and second.  Our current method of qualification is half the number of races + 1 (rounding down) which just stops this happening. 

good luck to them.... if they can sail that much then at least they are getting their money's worth!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 1:56pm
The Oxford system (same as the club I was at before moving to Somerset) seems sensible to me.

2547 - At Chew, if you don't do enough races you don't 'qualify' i.e. you don't get a series score or position. Just a little thing, but after 13 years it is bugging me!

But the more serious point is that I neither know nor care what race is on, on the days I do turn up. Is is Summer 12 or Autumn am 1? Who gives a sh*t you may say - enjoy the race in its own right. Well, I do. But in doing so, every race is the same, none hold more importance, none stand out, there is no "I have to beat him and don't care about her" strategy. Motivation becomes difficult - I'll wait till next weekend when the weather is better. Only, of course, tomorrow never comes. I feel like I need a way to prioritise which races to do, which Sundays to commit. But I can't do that unilaterally - it needs co-ordinating by the club so we all try to priorise the same events. And not a week in advance with a jolly e-mail from the fleet captain, but set in the racing programme. I don't know, I'm too tired to think it through but it seems to me that racing becomes stale without some goals to aim for.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 2:07pm
I agree the qualification thing is pointless. I've never seen a shred of evidence that it improves turnouts. If someone manages to juggle two boats and come first and second in the series then they deserve the cheap glassware!

What I'm interested in is how we can make it possible for people to do more races in a series whilst juggling their attendance at a club. We have a couple of one race a month series, one pursuit, and one dual handicapped personal and standard, so that people who can't make races every weekend can at least target weekends and still be in with a fair chance of the prizes.

There's a little evidence that our turnout is a bit better for the dual handicap series, so it may be working.

At the moment we also extract results from the "special" weekend races for the main season long series, and I do wonder whether it would be better not to do that so people can also target two weekends a month for a prize at that level. I can't figure out a way to look at numbers to see if that would be useful.

The difficulty of course is that in general the best sailors are also the most active, so if you introduce more prizes it just means the same people get more cups, which is fairly pointless...

Now I'm writing this, I wonder if there could be any mileage in divisions within the classes... Should we have say age categories or weight categories in single class races, or best two hander, best singlehander, best asymettric, best pole kite in handicap racing... That would certainly encourage competition between boats of similar types, and its maybe something that class racing could grow out of... I dunno, what do people think?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 2:11pm
I like your last paragraph, I was interested in a 'performance box class' once.  I floated the idea... MPS, 700, IC/AC all on the same course, same fleet, no handicap.  The idea was thought to have some legs by other classes sailing in fleets, but the guys who thought it sucked were to the one or two occasionally sailing 700s and MPSs.... sometimes we need to accept that logic doesn't always apply. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 2:15pm
Yes, yes and yes. Lots of good ideas there Jim.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 13 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by Peaky

2547 - At Chew, if you don't do enough races you don't 'qualify' i.e. you don't get a series score or position. Just a little thing, but after 13 years it is bugging me!

We used to have this at Hunts and I felt it was ridiculous so when i was co-opted on to the sailing committee I raised it.

The grumbling was that it had always been this way.

I suggested we do not change the 'qualification' criteria we simply allow people to carry DNC results in their series scores. The criteria is half the number of races + 1.

This may not have directly increased attendance or changed the overall results but a lot of people commented it was nice to see their results in there as they were not even published prior to this change.

What do your sailing committee say about this peaky?
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