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Symmetric v Assymmeric Spinnakers
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 1:59pm
Yep I remember that... aim to hook in ex 29er or offer alternative to 29ers... 

... then they sold one to Graeme.

Actually there is a very nice heartwarming 20 something story, featuring the current Int Class bloke... 
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 2:09pm
The 400 is only faster in the very light stuff and even then it depended on the usual things like good start and getting shifts about right, I remember us having a right battle with a 400 and the only reason he beat us was a Dolphin shoving him along.. I kid you not, that's exactly what happened.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 2:29pm
intelligent animal.... picked the better boat.
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Posts: 17 		Post Options Post Options   Quote oldarnus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by RS400atC


Surely it is the 29er that is spanking it in the UK?

Here goes Mr Negative, suggesting I suspect the wrong reason, but again it enabled him to push the knee wrecking 400! 
You don't give up when you know you have a winner!
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by iGRF

The 400 is only faster in the very light stuff and even then it depended on the usual things like good start and getting shifts about right, I remember us having a right battle with a 400 and the only reason he beat us was a Dolphin shoving him along.. I kid you not, that's exactly what happened.


I know you don't believe in PY, but there is a 20 point difference.
Which is borne out by a couple locally who moved from a 400 to a 500. They get similar results RTC using RYA base numbers.
The 500 is similar waterline length surely?
similar sail area?
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by oldarnus

Originally posted by RS400atC


Surely it is the 29er that is spanking it in the UK?

Here goes Mr Negative, suggesting I suspect the wrong reason, but again it enabled him to push the knee wrecking 400! 

I don't think the 400 is particularly hard on the knees, except perhpas for the crew in light weather.
As a helm, you're going to be hiking in the other boats under discussion anyway. These days, why do people keep designing single trap boats? One out,  all out I say!
Seriously there are enough helms who done a bit in contenders, Rs600's what have you, to make a market for a less skiffy twin wire boat IMHO.

Personally my knees are a bit wierd due to a couple of accidents in my past, not motorbikes but ladders and pushbikes. I actually find a good race in the 400 helps for a week or so, I guess it puts the knee in tension. I do not recommend trying this yourself, particularly the ladder bit.

I don't see myself as pushing the 400, it is a reference point, it's nearly 20 years old, part of the landscape. But a good boat of its time you should admit.

IMHO, the 29er always looks good on the water, shame I'm a bit big for it and the 49er is OTT for me.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by RS400atC


I know you don't believe in PY, but there is a 20 point difference.Which is borne out by a couple locally who moved from a 400 to a 500. They get similar results RTC using RYA base numbers. The 500 is similar waterline length surely?similar sail area?


It's not that I believe or don't believe in the PY, I just don't happen to agree with the way it suddenly has been lurching around, due imv (which may or may not be wrong)to the fact it is being gerrymandered for the agenda of person or persons unknown.

The RS400 v RS500 was my first experience and I accepted that the differences between what frankly were two very similar boats was that one was new and as yet untried and the other had the benefit of some very good sailors, which was once demonstrated to us by the class secretary at one of our events.

Sailor input in my view is a flaw in an equipment based handicap system, hence my thinking that a measurement based algorithm would be more fair, it might not be any more accurate but it would be less open to artificial influences.

Anyway without wishing to get another thread embroiled in a PY discussion the two boats have their moments when each is faster than the other, the 400 is probably overly handicapped imv then again we were racing the 500 at 963.
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 6:00pm
For Christ's sake RS400atC, why do you insist on comparing everything to your beloved 400 as if it is the only decent boat out there. And why does it matter what the relative speeds are? You try to argue for some bizarre reason that we need a reference, but why? If a boat serves a particular demographic looking for an appropriate niche, then that's great for them and makes not the blindest bit of difference to you. Boats like the V3000, Buzz,RS500 are all great for teenagers or lightweight adults who don't want a wobbly boat like a 29er. They are also people who would be far too small to sail your boat, and you are from the sound of it far too large to sail their boats.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 6:01pm
It's a sailor performance handicap system- you haven't figured that out yet have you?
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 13 at 8:40am
Originally posted by yellowwelly

Yep I remember that... aim to hook in ex 29er or offer alternative to 29ers... 

... then they sold one to Graeme.

Actually there is a very nice heartwarming 20 something story, featuring the current Int Class bloke... 

Cute. There's been a couple of proposals on B14s, though not involving custom kites. As far as I know, one of them was done whilst out practising on Garda, as they hurtled towards the wall with the kite up.
 
With the 500 though, tsk, a crew not rigging their own kite?
-_
Al
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