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Symmetric v Assymmeric Spinnakers
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Symmetric v Assymmeric Spinnakers
    Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by RS400atC


I know you don't believe in PY, but there is a 20 point difference.Which is borne out by a couple locally who moved from a 400 to a 500. They get similar results RTC using RYA base numbers. The 500 is similar waterline length surely?similar sail area?


It's not that I believe or don't believe in the PY, I just don't happen to agree with the way it suddenly has been lurching around, due imv (which may or may not be wrong)to the fact it is being gerrymandered for the agenda of person or persons unknown.

The RS400 v RS500 was my first experience and I accepted that the differences between what frankly were two very similar boats was that one was new and as yet untried and the other had the benefit of some very good sailors, which was once demonstrated to us by the class secretary at one of our events.

Sailor input in my view is a flaw in an equipment based handicap system, hence my thinking that a measurement based algorithm would be more fair, it might not be any more accurate but it would be less open to artificial influences.

Anyway without wishing to get another thread embroiled in a PY discussion the two boats have their moments when each is faster than the other, the 400 is probably overly handicapped imv then again we were racing the 500 at 963.
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by oldarnus

Originally posted by RS400atC


Surely it is the 29er that is spanking it in the UK?

Here goes Mr Negative, suggesting I suspect the wrong reason, but again it enabled him to push the knee wrecking 400! 

I don't think the 400 is particularly hard on the knees, except perhpas for the crew in light weather.
As a helm, you're going to be hiking in the other boats under discussion anyway. These days, why do people keep designing single trap boats? One out,  all out I say!
Seriously there are enough helms who done a bit in contenders, Rs600's what have you, to make a market for a less skiffy twin wire boat IMHO.

Personally my knees are a bit wierd due to a couple of accidents in my past, not motorbikes but ladders and pushbikes. I actually find a good race in the 400 helps for a week or so, I guess it puts the knee in tension. I do not recommend trying this yourself, particularly the ladder bit.

I don't see myself as pushing the 400, it is a reference point, it's nearly 20 years old, part of the landscape. But a good boat of its time you should admit.

IMHO, the 29er always looks good on the water, shame I'm a bit big for it and the 49er is OTT for me.
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by iGRF

The 400 is only faster in the very light stuff and even then it depended on the usual things like good start and getting shifts about right, I remember us having a right battle with a 400 and the only reason he beat us was a Dolphin shoving him along.. I kid you not, that's exactly what happened.


I know you don't believe in PY, but there is a 20 point difference.
Which is borne out by a couple locally who moved from a 400 to a 500. They get similar results RTC using RYA base numbers.
The 500 is similar waterline length surely?
similar sail area?
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Posts: 17 		Post Options Post Options   Quote oldarnus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by RS400atC


Surely it is the 29er that is spanking it in the UK?

Here goes Mr Negative, suggesting I suspect the wrong reason, but again it enabled him to push the knee wrecking 400! 
You don't give up when you know you have a winner!
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 2:29pm
intelligent animal.... picked the better boat.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 2:09pm
The 400 is only faster in the very light stuff and even then it depended on the usual things like good start and getting shifts about right, I remember us having a right battle with a 400 and the only reason he beat us was a Dolphin shoving him along.. I kid you not, that's exactly what happened.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 1:59pm
Yep I remember that... aim to hook in ex 29er or offer alternative to 29ers... 

... then they sold one to Graeme.

Actually there is a very nice heartwarming 20 something story, featuring the current Int Class bloke... 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 1:54pm
When it was launched RS stated that it was aimed at the 'lost' generation of twentysomethings. That is presumably why is it small (no beer gut yet) and cheap. A modern day Laser 2, I suppose.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

What is the point of having a trapeze and going slower?


Knees...

And of course the 29er is really a youth only class. The 500 is a bit less full on, which has its appeal.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 13 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by RS400atC


I do not understand why it is slower on PY and on the water in most weather than the 400.
What is the point of having a trapeze and going slower?



It is altogether a smaller boat the the 400, designed for lighter people wanting different things from their sailing.
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