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Sail Juice 2013-14 Series
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chrisg View Drop Down
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Posts: 893 		Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sail Juice 2013-14 Series
    Posted: 11 Nov 13 at 9:22pm
Correct Al/Alex and others, the individual clubs that host Sailjuice races are free to upload the Sailjuice results from their events to PYS under their own banner if they feel they are representative of a fair race at their club held under their own water and weather conditions.
What Andy said was that the Sailjuice series do not upload as an entity on their own, so craiggo the results are used in the digest if the clubs upload them. As James alluded to, I upload the Dash results as part of the DWSC return so those ones at least are used. I cannot speak for the other clubs though.

Chris
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 13 at 9:49pm
I agree on the club adjusting the number thing - small clubs really don't have the data to do such things. Yesterday, I watched a race where the Phantom port-tacked the fleet at the start, then disappeared over the horizon in lovely clear wind while everyone else battled it out. That sort of thing happens regularly, at many clubs with many different boats. How much of it is Crew skill, how much boat speed?

My assumption is that the RYA figure has pretty much got that nailed, as much as they ever can. We, obviously, have not. The fair number will be the one in the lists. This must apply to the vast majority of clubs round the country, but judging by the PY computer thread elsewhere, decisions are being made on some very flimsy data, because the RYA says they ought to.
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 13 at 10:20pm
Chris good to hear that you upload the dash results. I think it makes sense to upload eeverything that is uploadable to the system.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 13 at 10:58pm
Originally posted by chrisg

Correct Al/Alex and others, the individual clubs that host Sailjuice races are free to upload the Sailjuice results from their events to PYS under their own banner if they feel they are representative of a fair race at their club held under their own water and weather conditions.
What Andy said was that the Sailjuice series do not upload as an entity on their own, so craiggo the results are used in the digest if the clubs upload them. As James alluded to, I upload the Dash results as part of the DWSC return so those ones at least are used. I cannot speak for the other clubs though.
Chris


So, saying they don't contribute is just a bit disingenuous don't you think?

Given you're trying to force an apology from me?

Five, six or is it seven major events all uploading the Laser at 1117 or whatever it is, makes no difference, and why do they want the Laser to be 1117? Nothing to do with it being the worlds most prolific boat and it might just swell their numbers and thus their entry fee pot?

So, lets just reconsider that apology again that I gave earlier..
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chrisg View Drop Down
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Posts: 893 		Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 13 at 11:03pm
You do like twisting things don't you Graham. Where did I ever say they didn't contribute?

The original statement that was put across as fact was "SailJuice event results get discussed by the PYAG before finalising the annual list". Which is not true and was what I was disputing. As Andy from the RYA said, the PYAG have their own data to work from. This may or may not include sailjuice results depending on whether the individual clubs have uploaded to the PYS website. We do not discuss the Sailjuice numbers when setting the national ones.

A club could be using 1400 for a standard rig laser and it would make FA difference to the suggested number the PYS spits out for that class for that race. How many times do we need to say this?

And once again, no the Sailjuice numbers are not adjusted to favour any one class or encourage ones participation over another.

I'll go back into hibernation now. Shame really as this forum used to be good.


Edited by chrisg - 12 Nov 13 at 7:20am
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 13 at 11:09pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Five, six or is it seven major events all uploading the Laser at 1117 or whatever it is, makes no difference

Well, last year the returns for the Laser ran to over 14,000 races from over 100 clubs, so how much difference do you think 5 or 7 moreraces are going to make?


Edited by JimC - 11 Nov 13 at 11:11pm
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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 13 at 8:19am
Chris, I am sorry about Graeme's attitude.  Please accept that he is not like the majority of forum readers and posters.  Graeme has little or no experience of the dinghy sailing world, yet uses this forum to constantly draw attention to himself and his efforts to 'improve' things and fix things that do not need fixing.  He has killed this forum with his constant harping on about systems he does not understand and events he will neve take part in, because he knows he will only get mid to back of the fleet placings.  Something his ego could never cope with.

He has, almost singlehandedly, made this forum a dull place to be, whilst setting himself up as some sort of sailing messiah.  I fear all this has come about because he is now past it as a windsurfer and is now nothing more than a weekend warrior in a sport that he does not understnad and where he cannot compete.

Please Graeme, go and 'save' some other sport, we're happy as we are.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 13 at 9:00am
It's frankly quite pathetic both of you, if you can't sustain an argument, to accuse me of ruining a forum which quite frankly when I first came here was a childish drunken cherub fest.
Neither was it me that suggested ""SailJuice event results get discussed by the PYAG before finalising the annual list" I have no idea. Have happily admitted that, but I do have an idea how all the gerrymandering which has suggested that a Laser is now two minutes slower over an hour course impacts clubs that do not or will not submit returns or fix their own handicap.
You Wing wang I would have expected better from and you other guy Chris, you're lucky to have a medium to discuss the results of your efforts we don't have to bother posting, throwing a strop and stomping off, very grown up, really gives me confidence in the system...
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 13 at 9:20am
Originally posted by iGRF

Neither was it me that suggested ""SailJuice event results get discussed by the PYAG before finalising the annual list" I have no idea.  

No, it was me.  A fact that was then disputed by Andy, but later confirmed to be correct when Chris stated he did upload the Dash results, and other clubs may or may not have uploaded their SJ data too.  By inclusion in the digest, they ultimately get discussed, or am I missing something?  

I'm glad he did.  I would hope the rest of the clubs on the SJ series do too.  When there is a spike in data accuracy (different sailors sailing at different locations testing sailing skill with less 'local knowledge' variables) it would be a damn shame NOT to include that data.  

It is not a Championship, these events started off as a place for coastal sailors to come and keep their hands in during the winter time when their club ceased racing.  They are welcomed with open arms, so is the traditional income from them, as oddly enough, even inland, some folks lay up for winter.  Without a bit of a boost of fresh, temporary blood, the inland sailing scene would be even more morose... a gesture generously returned with the likes of FED Week and Camel Week.  Quid Pro Quo Clarice.

It's a series of club sailing events for club sailors and circuit sailors.  I can't think of anything better than including the recorded times into the PY digest.  The fact that local handicaps have been applied makes F.A. difference to the quality of the data collected.  The fact that some industry types and pro amateurs (guys and girls who don't pay for their sh*t), have been seen treating these events as anything different, has NO BEARING on PN numbers. 

As for Graeme ruining the forum... hmm, don't agree personally.  So he's opinionated.  Answer back, ignore him, quote him with nothing but a strike through edit, post a comical picture of a little dwarf on a windsurf board... here, right click 'Save Image As', hard work is done for you:





BUT the fact that some people feel that they're now done now with the forum, maybe other forums too, is not Graeme's doing.  Our social media landscape has changed enormously, I personally favour this format and value all contribution on it.  Other don't and they're done with dedicated, topic based sites like this and can all they want from a 140 characters of txt spk.  Maybe they've decided to spend more time on Facebook or Twitter in lieu of a proper class association forum, whatever... that happens.  Bye-bye for now, but I genuinely hope you guys come back to share your sailing stories once again in the future- they will be missed.


Edited by yellowwelly - 12 Nov 13 at 9:47am
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iitick View Drop Down
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Posts: 392 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 13 at 9:24am
Oh, I think that's a bit harsh Nessa. The misguided youth that is young Fuller can be amusing some times  and he is the only forum participant who has put his money where his mouth is and put theory into practice. He must have a place on here because he evokes response when he speaks however daft the statements he makes.

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