Edition
Icon |
Post Reply 
|
Page <1 678910 18> |
| Author |
 Share Topic Printable Version Delicious Digg Facebook Furl Google MySpace Newsvine reddit StumbleUpon Translate Twitter Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks Topic Search  Topic Options
|
|
yellowwelly 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
 Post Options
 Quote Reply
 Topic: IconPosted: 04 Nov 13 at 11:13am |
|
|
Ah okay... well I shall be happy to see the defCON 1 in the results in January...
Edited by yellowwelly - 04 Nov 13 at 11:13am |
||
 |
||
|
2547
Really should get out more
Joined: 11 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Nov 13 at 11:05am |
|
No the BM accepts all comers now but you have to give them prior notice if you have an one-off ... I would expect that any random would be given an arbitrarily tough PY otherwise if they clean up then it will just invite complaints that the PY was soft ...
|
||
|
||
|
yellowwelly
Really should get out more
Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Nov 13 at 11:00am |
|
agreed for club racing, but some events still prevent them though, BM for example?
|
||
|
||
|
JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Nov 13 at 10:50am |
|
|
In some ways oneoffs almost easier to give a PY for. If you have an established sailor at your club, and know where they tend to place in the pecking order, then all you have to do, a few races in, is calculate a number where they end up with the same sorts of placing. Theget problems problems if the sailor is new to the club or thinks they somehow deserve to do better with the new yacht.
Clubs should NOT deny entry to boats without published PY numbers - how else would boats get on the list... |
||
|
||
|
yellowwelly
Really should get out more
Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Nov 13 at 10:50am |
|
|
it's a catch 22 though isn't it... any new class/new design needs some early adopters to fill the pipeline, but the type of personality who would welcome something new or try something different, would also tinker and fart about with it. Adding traps to the 59er sure as hell gave the 400 a surer footing in the UK in the face of a potential competitor.
I've no stats, but gut instinct would suggest that most classes that get off the ground seem to find their natural demographic in second and third generation owners, rather than the early adopters who took the initial punt. If we look at the RS100 as another more recent example, it's taken what, 3 years for the class to settle down a bit, the end outcome with the split / focus on 8.4 not being what a lot of the first owners would have chosen imho.
|
||
|
||
|
2547
Really should get out more
Joined: 11 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Nov 13 at 10:40am |
|
|
The PY system is a system of measuring actual performance and creating an average and using those averages to handicap a design.
Whilst a one-off can be awarded an arbitrary PY number the system is not designed to deal with one-offs. Of course new classes will need to be embraced to welcome them into the system but I would expect any one-off to be given a tough PY based of the design figures. Any new class that develops a split personality in its early years is making life hard for itself; I suspect people messing with trapezes on the 59er was party responsible for the class never really getting going ... there was always a doubt about what it really was; a hiker or a trap dinghy?
|
||
|
||
|
yellowwelly
Really should get out more
Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Nov 13 at 10:17am |
|
|
Then it wouldn't be the Portsmouth Yardstick system anymore. And you are right, it's totally unsuited to a one off- even Dan's Punk, as the system is inherently based on data from multiple sources and multiple sailors creating comparable averages across wind range, water range and sailing ability- loosely built around the class structure, and we all know the quality of 'constant' that little asset plays in the math formula.
I suggest you model up a SCHRS for monohulls if PY is failing to give you the fairness of racing, then handover the IP of your new system to the RYA to replace their PY system (which is one of their more successful products for their club customer base, so it won't be an easy sell, even giving it away for free)... or get over it and enjoy it for what it is... 'a competitive pootle' or choose class racing...
Edited by yellowwelly - 04 Nov 13 at 10:20am |
||
|
||
|
iGRF
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Nov 13 at 10:11am |
|
I don't get why it can't have a PY, Dans Punk is a one off, he races with a PY, when I first took the Alto to the water it didn't have an official Yardstick, hasn't stopped me using it all this time and it's still not listed even though boats that have come along since have, is having a yardstick not what you know but 'who' you know? I know whatever yardstick I come up with, the b**tards down at my club will see to it, it will end up shortened to no advantage to me. I raced the RS500 at 963 when it was 973, the Alto at 915 when it was 935, I shall tell them it's a new Wayfarer, do you think they'll take any notice? 
It's why the yardstick should be a factually measured like it or lump it can't be messed with rating, not something that can be politically, ironically, anarchically, or just plane enviously screwed with as it is at the moment. Maybe it's time for the SBHRS. Edited by iGRF - 04 Nov 13 at 10:12am |
||
|
||
|
blaze720
Really should get out more
Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Nov 13 at 10:01am |
|
|
I guess your club would give you some sort of local PY but you'd never be able to enter any multi class events ...
But we do and have done with the regular Icon from day 1 and why should it be that different for GRF's project ? Many many clubs will offer you an ad hoc handicap if you call them in advance. Usually they will say if you walk away with the event they reserve the right to give you a 'position' but then exclude you from overall results. Most people and handicappers are reasonable if you are reasonable as well. For the record since Icon was in the same position originally. We and others have still raced at some of the Sailjuice events for the last couple of years, and boats have entered Falmouth Week, Poole Week, Frensham Frenzy, Exmoor Beastie, several HISC open handicap events, ditto at half a dozen other clubs... Mike L. PS - 2547 - I stand corrected - I'm convinced you really like Icon now you tell me ... And as you do like it, you should now try it If the GRF goodies would make it even more desirable you can maybe 'cadge' a sail with him as well. |
||
|
||
|
Telltale
Posting king 
Joined: 03 May 12 Location: Cardiff Online Status: Offline Posts: 169 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Nov 13 at 9:53am |
|
Blaze 720 would totally agree with you that class racing gives the best measure skill, but from his projects he clearly wants to push the technical envelope. To do that he is allowing/encouraging iGRF to try something different. Who is to say that modular, 2 kite symassy sailing doesn't take off. I can see that doing something different and sailing through the fleet might well be a laugh, no race win but line honours and banter could well compensate for the wrong or no PY. |
||
|
||
|
Post Reply
|
Page <1 678910 18> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy