Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Hadron |
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Do Different ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 04 Oct 13 at 8:53pm |
Any body else remember the Harrier?
I thought I saw a resemblance in the last image of Tom (I guess) standing in it, now I know why. We had one at our Club, I seem to remember the rear tanks being set about with a jig saw to make it float lower when on its side.
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Yes, I've sailed a Harrier. Had to be kept very flat, or the water came in over the corner of the foredeck. It felt like a slightly unfinished project. I hope the Hadron is the finished article, 40 years later!
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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sandgrounder ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 01 Apr 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 220 |
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Dougaldog ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 05 Nov 10 Location: hamble Online Status: Offline Posts: 356 |
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Well done Tom. When I was doing the boat tests (and yes, comparison tests) for DSMs I used to like pushing the boat until it finally bit back and put me in. A 'real' capsize ought to be the very meat of any meaningful test; any fool can sheet in hard, bring his weight inboard until the boat flops over on it's side - by then you're half way over the side and onto the centreboard. The last of the DSM tests was with the RS100 (more on this in a mo!) and that 'real' capsize, when you've tiller in one hand, spinnaker sheet in t'other and the mainsheet wrapped around your ankles was a good indication of what the boat was really like when you 'lost it'!
However, the problem with any sort of test is that it is not as easy to do as some may think. Being able to be really objective - almost being able to visualise yourself sailing the boat from 'outside' and then writing what you found out in clear, concise and 'constructive' terms is something that is not straightforward - those that do it, just as Tom (and myself back in the days of DSM) will have spent many an hour back ashore in front of the PC screen writing and re-writing. The trouble is today is that there are very few 'bad' boats out there, the Darwinian process of weeding the dogs out is remarkably effective. So, DSM's last comparison test was the RS100, two boats with the big and small sail, against NOT the D-One (contrary to those who think they remember) but the 'Big Blaze' aka the HALO. Now here is where the job gets difficult. In the weeks leading up to the test I'd been sailing both the D-One and a Contender, so I think I was well situated to express an opinion. Yep, no matter now objective you are, any test report in the end boils down to the opinion of the tester. My view was that having sailed both boats 'back to back' it was maybe a good thing that the D-One wasn't there as it would have 'in my opinion' shown up the harsh fact that it was simply a better boat that the RS. However, what really gave me a full postbag full of hate mail was the fact that for the more generously figured (ie, lard arsed) club sailor, the HALO was the best of the bunch, I loved it! Upwind in medium conditions, when you'd have been doing hunchback impersonations on the gunwale of the Contender, the HALO just flew; for round the cans, when legs are often not that long, you could swing around a mark and be straight onto the pace. For those club sailors who can do one day a weekend and the occasional mid week evening, I thought it a wonderful compromise and NO, it certainly didn't need a kite!! For those with maybe the time to indulge the boat to get the best out of it, the D-One was the next best and this wasn't even on test! Sadly, expressing opinions that don't match well with some of the more vocal (but maybe less well informed) readers was simply seen as heresy.... how dare I say these things. In the end, boat tests are interesting but if they are to be of value, then they have to really make the boat work to show what is good and what not so good, plus that all important 'why' people should sail it. With magazines now held to account by the power of the big advertising budgets, I wonder if you'll ever see again a real 'warts and all' report that highlights real shortcomings in a boat's design. So the bottom line is to get out there and be your own tester.... and then you too can tip the boat in and find for yourself just how great the claims from the maker really are. PS - Hadron: I was dealing with designer Keith Callaghan when he was working on the lines that became Hadron. Keith has been designing winning Merlins for many a long year and knows a trick or two about what the boat needs to be able to satisfy a fairly demanding set of criteria... Nice deep cockpit for those with Laser wrecked knees and hips High enough boom so you don't have to limbo dance when tacking a gybing Enough performance to be sparkling without turning into a monster at 20 kts of breeze Vice free handing Reasonable weight carrier Light weight for easy handling ashore Easily recoverable after a capsize! I've yet to sail it but I will be...... but from what I've seen so far, those criteria have more than been met! Dougal (ex DSM and other outlets!)
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Dougal H
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Interesting post, to me it highlights that you've never had that many decent boats, they've all got flaws with very few exceptions and as a test person for a magazine clearly not doing your job as well as it ought to have been done perhaps.
![]() The RS100 had flaws hence the drop off in sales and early adopters quickly moving away. Probably the reason all the old dross is still going strong, I don't think I've read a single dinghy review where anyone was harsh about a boat and there are plenty of faults to highlight, not that there have been many such tests. Then to congratulate a tester on a job badly done kind of confirms my theory eh? |
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Steve411 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Sep 08 Location: Cheddar, Somerset, England Online Status: Offline Posts: 705 |
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I was always uncertain that the Phantom main was smaller than the 300. At Sailfest we laid a 300 main over a Phantom's. The 300 is marginally longer in the luff (2-3 inches only) and has a little bit more roach by the top batten. However, the Phantom has a longer foot and a droopy boom as opposed to the 300 one which sticks up. We estimated that the Phantom's main is nearly 1m2 larger than the 300.
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yellowwelly ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Dougal- interesting reading your comments about the RS100 tests again, I think you were quite right identifying so early on about the kites not really being worth it for your average RTC club sailor- I read something similar you wrote on the CVRDA iirc.
However at the time, it's very easy to get caught up in the buzz of one class over another, and frankly to support the builder offering the early adopter incentives who was interested in building up the class. It also protected our investments somewhat! The D-One was still suffering badly from a sh*te exchange rate and euro pricing- the headline price of the 100 wasn't far short of half the price! The gap is far less now, and of course headline prices don't take account of the 'optional' neccesiities. As for the Halo- it missed the point, a number of us felt that to add more horsepower to the blaze was the right thing to do, but to do this via a kite was the only option. We were wrong, but it takes experience to know that.
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Dougaldog ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 05 Nov 10 Location: hamble Online Status: Offline Posts: 356 |
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Ha there YW (I guess that could be yellow wellie or another use of YW.....!) - I guess we'll just have to wait for GRF to answer your comments, he'd far rather screw 3/4" self tappers into his eyeballs before he'd admit that he was not wrong (for there wasn't a right or a 'wrong' answer) about the Blaze but he might not have thought things all the way through.
Funnily enough, whilst doing 'that' comparison test, plus some other sailing I was given the chance to do around that time, I started thinking and by the time the 'plug' was pulled on DSM I already had the outline of a pretty good series all lined up. My plan was to accept that there's nothing wrong in the way dinghies are going if you've the time to work at the boat, or you come from the same gene pool at Dan Holman, Ben McGrane and others, or you are still on the right side of 55 (or all of the above). I might have actually had the genes, but that was half a lifetime ago, yet as one lurches into the sunset of sailing why the hell shouldn't we continue sailing. The simple answer is that we can, but after a lifetime of sailing performance boats, do we want to shuffle around in the sailing equivalent of the mobility scooter? People are worried about the loss of numbers, but there are a lot of people in the same position as myself, I'd love to be sailing and still have my beloved Contender AND a classic Merlin Rocket but these are very weather and 'event' specific. So, the series already referred set out with a focus on boats for the 50+ sailor, who wants to race at his club yet isn't 'up' for the work that you'd need to be putting in with one of the spinnaker assisted single handers. So, out went boats with kites, ditto acres of sail. The criteria that I listed in my earlier posting was a starting point for the single hander and after long discussions with Keith Callaghan, the Hadron came into being. But I did say a series...my plan was to make it a 3 parter, singlehander, 2 person non-trapeze and 2 person, single trapeze. You'll not be amazed to read that whilst I looked at lots of boats, the core of the writing focused on the Hadron, Icon and Alto. There are lots of little sub-issues - for the sort of sailor - and sailing ,that I was describing. It went without saying that a proper centreboard was a plus point, as were sails that you could hoist up the mast (and take down whilst still afloat - maybe a more important factor) - this was really about wanting the easy 'turn up and sail', with the minimum of faffing around. Not all the boats I was looking at (including offerings from abroad) ticked all the boxes and yes.... I was happy to add in some of the existing 'market leaders' in each grouping. Sadly the article went no further than a verbal discussion with the DSM editorial team, I guess the good news is that I didn't lose out when the Mag closed before we included it. All the other issues that previous posters have raised...'is the boat an established class' and 'will there be an every weekend of the year open meeting circuit, Inlands, Championships and a Worlds in some far off destination' are irrelevant - this was unashamedly a boat for the Club sailor who still wants to enjoy a great sailing 'experience'. The standard Blaze does that well already, the HALO just did it more so. What I WASN'T allowed to say in my draft article was that I found the difference between the two similar to the difference between the Contender and the RS 600. Sailing the 600 was like a Contender on steroids, right up to the point on the wind spectrum where all of a sudden the Contender started to look a far nicer boat...well, thats what I felt about the Blaze/Halo. However, most club sailing is held in light to medium airs and if you sail around the cans (even more so in tidal conditions) then that ability to round the mark and be 'set' for the next leg can be a winner - to me it is one of the big 'plus points' that make boats like the Phantom a winner on PY. But this thread is about the Hadron and I think that Keith Callaghan has once again showed a nice touch of balance with his design - once again that old adage that if the boat 'looks' nice then it will probably be okay and will do what it's supposed to do. Now I'm aware of at least one other single hander that is being considered, how about something along the lines of a single handed B14, you might even see one day something that is not a million miles away from a single handed Icon (it Could make a lot of sense!). Great, I'll await these developments with interest and if I can have a shot in one I'll be off but - equally like grandkids the good thing is being able to give it back after an hour or so! However, as I've said in the past, in one of the talks I do at sailing clubs called the 'Slow death of fast dinghy sailing' one of the core premises is that as you add sail -or sails to a boat whilst making the hull lighter, you radically improved performance but at the expense of reducing the pool of sailors with the capability to comfortably sail the boat across the full range of wind conditions. My guess is that given the care put into the design (not to mention the designer's track record of drawing fairly vice free hull forms) that you'd be okay sailing in the Hadron in a blow....after some of the supposedly 'sexier' stuff is heading for the sure. The problem is saying things like that in a boat test, even though it is an opinion drawn on a lifetime racing just about anything that floats, is a surefire way to get 'hot coals heaped upon the head'. Do I care.... nah, not any longer. But being that old fart I do also remember these...so just for you YW, here's a pic of the original 'blue wellies' as featured on the Noel Edmunds Radio 1 morning show.......along aside such characters as 'sid snot' (shows there is nothing new...a bit like being on here!!!!!!_ D
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Dougal H
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tgruitt ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 Dec 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2479 |
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Same designer... http://www.bluelightning.co.uk/Harrier/harrier1.htm |
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Needs to sail more...
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yellowwelly ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Cheers Dougal
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