Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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NickM ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 27 May 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 328 |
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A minor incident on Sunday got me wondering. Situation was this.
Two boats in the same class race running down on port gybe to the leeward mark for a port hand rounding. Wind Force 3-4. Boat A is astern of Boat B but just establishes an overlap when entering the three hull length zone. Boat B gives A mark room and as they harden up onto a port tack beat after the mark, (i.e. the mark is now just astern,) Boat B is level with but to leeward of Boat A. Boat A's boom end lightly brushes the shoulder of the helm of Boat B who is now hiking hard. At what moment does 18.2 switch off and 11 apply? Boat B thought Boat A had made a less than competent mark rounding and was slow to sheet in and harden up. Boat A might have taken the view that Boat B did not give him sufficient room to complete the rounding in a seamanlike manner. At what point is Boat A is obliged to keep clear however slow it is to reach a proper close hauled course? |
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Case 25 would be pertinent - when an inside windward boat that is entitled to mark-room takes more space than she is entitled to, she must keep clear of the outside leeward boat, and the outside boat may luff provided that she gives the inside boat room to keep clear.
Boat A is entitled to room to sail to the mark and room to round the mark as necessary to sail the course. She must do this whilst manoeuvvring promptly in a seamanlike way. If the protest committee finds that A took more room than that to which she was entitled (and a less than competent mark rounding might lead to that) then A was required to keep clear. |
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Gordon
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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This is very like case 25 in the case book...
http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/20132016ISAFCaseBook-[14819].pdf To quote: "IW sailed a hull length away from the mark on a course over 45 degrees below close-hauled and, as a result, took much more space than rule 18.2(b) entitled her to take." And in the case that's treated as too slow to harden up and Inside Windward was DSQ. |
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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I agree that Case 25 will get you there in this scenario, but note the following:
I suggest that there is a slightly different analysis available in this case. First, Rule 18.2( b ) is NOT 'switched off'. It continues to apply while ever the boat entitled to mark-room remains in the zone and does not pass head to wind (rule 18.2( b ), last sentence). And, of course rule 11 applied throughout: its just that while a boat is sailing within the mark-room to which she is entitled she will be exonerated if she breaks a right of way rule (rule 21).
In the scenario described, when the incident occurred, OP said the mark was just astern (presumably of at least A, the boat entitled to mark-room), thus the boat entitled to mark-room:
So, all the actions defined in mark-room have happened and been completed in the past. The boat entitled to mark-room is no longer sailing within the mark-room to which she is entitled: she is thus, no longer entitled to exoneration if she breaks a right of way rule; and the boat owing mark-room no longer needs to take any action to give mark-room.
The boat entitled to mark-room clearly breaks rule 11, is not exonerated by rule 21 and thus, on valid protest should be penalised.
The above analysis relies on an observable fact: mark left astern, rather than on a qualitative judgement about how far from the mark exceeds the space to which the boat entitled to mark-room is entitled. I think it is easier to apply.
Note, however, that Case 25 is very useful about the space or room: the third last paragraph says:
If it is not possible to apply the 'left the mark astern' criterion, this provides us with an authoritative guide to how much room is too much.
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Brass - I would take issue only on one point:
the entitlement to mark room ceases to apply: - when the course of the boat entitled to mark-room is no longer determined by need to leave the mark on the required side, that is when she no longer needs room to sail to the mark or room to round the mark to sail her course (This may be when she leaves the mark astern, but especially in tidal waters this may be somewhat later). From this moment rule 18 may apply, but rule 18.2(b) ceases to have any relevance as the is nothing left to be entitled to... OR if she leaves the zone or passes head to wind before the above condition is met. However the entitlment to mark room does not automatically apply until the boat entitled to mark-room leaves the zone. A further minor point: The boat length from the mark, 45° indication in Case 25 gives us an EXAMPLE rather than an authorative guide. "Much more space" implies that if she had been closer to the mark, or had luffed further the boat could still have been taking "more" space than that to which she was entitled. |
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Gordon
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NickM ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 27 May 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 328 |
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Thanks guys for a very clear explanation as always. I was the helm of B and, as my initial reactions was doubt about who was in the right, I didn't shout. It was of course moderately windy and A was executing quite a tight turn and did not sheet in quickly. Actually I'm not sure he even noticed the minor contact.
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Edited by Brass - 03 Oct 13 at 1:24am |
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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It is interesting to stress test your proposition that an 18.2b continues until the entitled boat leaves the zone. Turn to team racing... which (mis)uses the same rules...
What your interpretation leads to is that a boat that has passed the mark but not left the zone can gybe, return to the mark and once again claim mark room off other boats! Team racers would love to be able to do this - and they can but without any protection from rule 18! The rule (18.2 and the definition of mark-room) defines a corridor to the mark and around the mark. The dimensions of this corridor are variable according to the conditions, and may turn out to be bigger than originally expected. There may be disagreement as to the size of this corridor (which will be settled by the PC). Whilst taking mark-room the entitledboat has an obligation to manoeuvre in a seamanlike way, which may not be to the entitled boat's tactical advantage. Once the entitled boat has sailed through this corridor and out the far end then they have been given mark-room as defined. The obligation of the room-giving boat ends and the entitled boats exoneration under rule 21 ends. 18.2 obligations can ALSO end because the entitled boat passes head to wind or leaves the zone. However the entitlement to mark room does not necessarily apply until the entitled boat leaves the zone. It can end before the entitled boat leaves the zone (There was not an extraneous negative in my previous post). |
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Gordon
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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In ordinary club level fleet racing I think there could be advantages if the mark room protection extended until the inner boat leaves the zone provided she maintains a proper course to the *next* mark (and without tacking), but I hate to think what sort of abuses might be made of such at elite level, let alone the perversions of match and team racing...
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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I got caught like this a few years ago after a less than perfect (though still within "seamanlike") rounding, when the leeward boat was able to force me to keep clear right after the mark. Luckily I did turns, as I lost the protest that I was still in the process of rounding. Up to that point, I'd not realized how quickly it all switches off. So long as we all understand how the rule works, then it isn't too bad, though in handicap racing there is both the problem of how high different boats point coming out of a mark, and how long it takes them to get to that point. If rounding outside a big, heavy boat, then they have the right to take their normal amount of time, I assume, to round and keep clear.
The rules really don't work as well for a mixed fleet. |
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