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Torchy View Drop Down
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Posts: 1 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Torchy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Flying Cherubs
    Posted: 09 Sep 13 at 11:49am
The title of the thread creates expectations of full foiling but the chances of anyone in the very near future of seriously, competitively full-foiling a Cherub are very low.

It is much more likely that foil-assist, verging on low flying will be tried in the near future. This might be far more significant longer term because if such a development is successful many future dinghy designs could adopt it. 

It is unlikely that full foiling would ever become the norm for sailing dinghies in the UK because most inland water is not suited to it. 

Foil assist however could see shorter waterline boats equalling or outperforming bigger boats. The current rules Cherubs are close to doing just that but lack upwind speed, particularly in lighter conditions, though huge progress has been made with the very latest designs and the use of T-foils. If the Cherubs crack this one the class could take off and/or spawn a very interested one-design because i. They are easier to sail than their reputation ii. They are cheaper to build than commonly thought and much cheaper than boats they may soon be competing with for speed and handling 

You can build a competitive Cherub for the price of a new RS200 (£8,000), add the cost of a suit of sails to that (£1,500?) and you can assemble a professionally built boat. Soon that boat could have 2 foils, not just one (yet have little or no launching issues), be very suited to the bigger ponds and (manageable) dynamite on open water.

...some of them even have halyards so you can take the sails down!
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 11:16pm
yep- very nice  Thumbs Up
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Posts: 1991 		Post Options Post Options   Quote timnoyce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 13 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by yellowwelly

 the beauty of the Cherub class is that it doesn't matter... if you want a tricked up 05 boat, fine, good, nice... I'm sure it's faster.  If you want a 97 rules single string, yep that's cool (Noycey, please post your recent photo!). 

I can go one better and post the video that the screen shot was taken from!

http://youtu.be/OSDXs85PzGY
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 6:08pm
In most other classes I'd agree with you, but the Cheryb is different. The same (with respect) stalwarts sail them regardless- and if you look at who's sailing what, seemingly appreciate a bit of retro and vintage, rather than necessarily always aspiring to the latest, newest, fastest. There's fresh blood coming through too and it's always been a breathren of open minded free spirits- I really can't see them choking on their own Kool-Aid over some stilts.

I reckon most of the active class would give these guys a clap, smile that they are to some extent free from the usual thinking around class parameters/rules etc
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by yellowwelly

Originally posted by gbr940

but seriously the Cherub is one of those classes which confuses the hell out of people. 

and good on 'em... if you want a simple twin stringer there's are plenty of very nasty 5000s and Boss's kicking around.  There are even more 800s, but they ain't so nasty, in fact they're quite nice, hence they cost a bit more, even for a shed.

the beauty of the Cherub class is that it doesn't matter... if you want a tricked up 05 boat, fine, good, nice... I'm sure it's faster.  If you want a 97 rules single string, yep that's cool (Noycey, please post your recent photo!).  If you want a classic one, that's cool too, very cool in the right circumstances.  So a few of the guys get some foils... so what, it's a bit of fun.  Good luck to them.


If all that matters is posing about and looking cool, foils might keep them amused for a bit.
But where does it lead them as a racing class?
Further splitting into factions?
Will it change the weight range of the boat?
Will it be beyond the budget of 3/4 of the class?
Will it result in any good racing?

The Moths have got over the barrier and are now getting meaningful racing.
The foiling moths seem to have brought in new people as well as keeping the core of the class.
I cannot see the cherubs doing that.
I don't know how many competitive Cherubs exist in the UK right now, but it is surely a small pool to divide?
I think it is more likely to damage a class that has a well deserved niche appeal.
A bit like the FF did to the 600?
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John Shelton View Drop Down
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Posts: 22 		Post Options Post Options   Quote John Shelton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 4:32pm
As I'm a bit of a numpty in the foiling department, does that main foil seem a long way forward, or is that a factor of the sailplan/CoG? The Murth foil is a lot further back, but maybe because it's lighter and only has one sail.

I suppose someone put some numbers into a formula and came up with where to put it?

Looks great fun though!
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by gbr940

but seriously the Cherub is one of those classes which confuses the hell out of people. 

and good on 'em... if you want a simple twin stringer there's are plenty of very nasty 5000s and Boss's kicking around.  There are even more 800s, but they ain't so nasty, in fact they're quite nice, hence they cost a bit more, even for a shed.

the beauty of the Cherub class is that it doesn't matter... if you want a tricked up 05 boat, fine, good, nice... I'm sure it's faster.  If you want a 97 rules single string, yep that's cool (Noycey, please post your recent photo!).  If you want a classic one, that's cool too, very cool in the right circumstances.  So a few of the guys get some foils... so what, it's a bit of fun.  Good luck to them.
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 3:54pm
If you know your Cherub history I think you will find that it was the UK that was doing the development and the Aussie side of class that started looking over it's shoulder at the UK.
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gbr940 View Drop Down
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Posts: 198 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gbr940 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 2:05pm
Always good to wind up a few people isn't it, especially as when you drop the "money" bomb in a discussion - but seriously the Cherub is one of those classes which confuses the hell out of people. Does it want to be it's own class or is it looking over it's shoulder to the Aussies who have been doing much of this development for years (take the R-Class for foiling or the 12 Footers who were twin-traps years before). 

Don't get me wrong I was/am a believer that the Arup Skiff is one of the coolest Cherubs ever to hit the water and the Carbonology GT60 was a thing of beauty (and clearly kicked ass when it was racing)...if it could just get some of the nippers from the 29er following this class could be unstoppable - I just don't think with full foiling it's the way forwards. 
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Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 13 at 12:56pm
I think the Cherub class is in a much healthier position now than it was 6 years ago (certainly from an outsiders perspective).  I had the pleasure of sharing a course with them at Weymouth.  Most of the boats seem well sorted now and there are certainly some pretty looking machines.  A far cry from the cobbled together rubbish that used to semi sink around you and if you sailed down wind of you would get high off the epoxy fumes.  I think its great and a tribute to the people that they are pushing boundaries and has shown that after a major rule change (2005) a class can morph into something very different with success.  It also seems that the sailor demograph has moved on since then as well, with more couples and parent child combos.  Previously it was (probably unfairly) just seen to be sailed by skinny teenagers.
 
Again, not based on any fact, just how i saw it from where i was standing.  I wish the class all the luck in the world and please keep trying new things as it benefits all the dinghy world in the long run.

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