Symmetric v Assymmeric Spinnakers

Originally posted by alstorer the "single trapeze two man boat for lightweights" is not exactly an underserved part of the market...

OK, so give me the name of a wash through hull with a retracting CB that weighs under 75kgs that doesn't suffer from massive weather helm the moment it blows (Just incase you were thinking RS500) that is an assym.

I've looked about, I can't see one.

So I have no alternative really but to make it happen..

And yes I'd already noticed those MG14's, assumed that was pretty much what I was about to create from that Icon reject hull..

If GRF wants to 'have a go' what on earth is the problem ?    He is not necessarily looking towards a commercial project in any event.    Better to start with a sorted light hull  ... than a heavy one surely.   Personally I would not go for a spinnaker / trapeze because the market is possibly limited and I'd be looking at that angle .. but for my own interest and devoid of having to make a commercial case for anything beyond a one-off I'd do it myself if I had the time. 

IF he does it I'll certainly want to try it as well ... you never know ..  After all you only stop learning when you make a conscious decision to settle for what is 'there' already.   (or is that when you just get 'too old' for really new stuff  ?  ... possible at any age in reality of course, and certainly not the preserve of the chronologically older ! ;-)

Mike L.

Originally posted by blaze720 If GRF wants to 'have a go' what on earth is the problem ?    He is not necessarily looking towards a commercial project in any event.    Better to start with a sorted light hull  ... than a heavy one surely.   Personally I would not go for a spinnaker / trapeze because the market is possibly limited and I'd be looking at that angle .. but for my own interest and devoid of having to make a commercial case for anything beyond a one-off I'd do it myself if I had the time.  IF he does it I'll certainly want to try it as well ... you never know ..  After all you only stop learning when you make a conscious decision to settle for what is 'there' already.   (or is that when you just get 'too old' for really new stuff  ?  ... possible at any age in reality of course, and certainly not the preserve of the chronologically older ! ;-) Mike L.

If I wanted to try out GRF's strongly held ideas about spinnaker pole systems, I be concentrating on that rather than modifying hulls.
OTOH if the game is about light weight, I would be tempted to look at self building to have a seriously light weight.
75kg is light, but add on a spinnaker tube or extra deck and a bit of reinforcement around the mods and you're talking 'only a bit lighter than a lot of other stuff'.
Of course the icon has a nice light mast, but is that going to be OK with a huge great kite on it?
Carbon masts, booms, rudder stocks and foils could make a huge difference to a lot of boats all up weight. For sure a 400 is relatively weighty fully rigged, but it was spec'd about 20 years ago


I think old age might be when you realise that your projects won't all be finished before you get a bus pass? Or is that middle age?
But GRF should define the parameters a little better. Is he looking for a trapeze boat or not?
Personally, I'm wondering where to go next and might consider a trapeze boat. But I can't convince myself I shouldn't look at a twin trap boat.

I suppose there is good reason for dagger boards in fast boats, but I'm sympathetic to GRF's view here too. Personally I have clipped the bottom at speed a couple of times already this year. It's bad enough when it takes me a couple of hours of filling and sanding, I don't want to be mending the hull, and I certainly want to finish the race.

When it comes to outrunning Merlins DDW in lightweather, I suspect what we are up against is their low wetted area, due to being narrow at the waterplane. Plus of course the raking rig, you don't have to run with the rig set up for the beat.
So I guess you are going to need to project more sail area than them.
Are we talking about truly dead down wind, close to DWW or just closer than asy's normally work?
I think a few yachts have been over this ground, with sprits that swivel a fair bit more than a 400 sprit.
It occurs to me that the sprit on a 400 could swivel further if it were higher up where the bow is wider, but at present it is out of the way of the kite.
I think the icon bow is finer, which is good, but offers less space for all this?

...... is the Icon hull not like any other fast hull, a bit tippy?

No ... try yourself or just ask those who have tried.  It is a highly capable and refined boat but the hull form and very light rig make it much less 'tippy' as you put it than say an RS200 or similar.  Surprised ?  Don't take our word, for we could be 'hyping' its character .. so just try yourself.  It is a fastish boat sure but one that regular mortals can get to grips with quite quickly and without the overall package ending up being bland.

IF GRF tries the 'vanilla' version of Icon before possibly modifying a hull  I think he will might have to think again as to what he might want as well ....

Mike L.