New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Symmetric v Assymmeric Spinnakers
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Symmetric v Assymmeric Spinnakers
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 45678 9>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Symmetric v Assymmeric Spinnakers
    Posted: 13 Aug 13 at 6:31pm
Half the reason I'm looking at this is weight, we want something that the two of us can lift onto a trailer have you tried lifting an RS400 without a crane?
Snow Equipment Deals    New Core Kite website
Back to Top
RS400atC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Dec 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 13 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Peaky


It would need to be a short L to stop it hitting the water when pointing down?

Well it got quite a deep bow, deeper than the angle a pole could swing in the narrow confines of that bow, short of a permanent T pole I can't think of another way to get the angle I'd need downwind..



If you want something about the size of an RS400, with a canting pole, just buy a 400!
With the £5000 you've saved, you could reduce the all up weight a fair bit by adding a carbon boom, rudder, mast, etc etc
Maybe a truly modern rig would be interesting?

TBH it would be worth buying a 400 just as a benchmark.
Back to Top
2547 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 13 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by transient

from my limited perspective, and I'll admit I haven't used one, the 200 srs looked to me the best attempt at making a square running assy. It had an extra pole for goosewinging the kite so that all of the sail was clear of the main and jib.The tweeker line allowed the halyard to pull from further up the mast whilst also allowing the kite head out further from the mast. Both aspects letting the kite work better in pushing mode.......I seem to remember reading somewhere that one of the reasons for banning it in the 200 SIs was that it wasn't in the true spirit of assy sailing.



The SRS on the RS200 was excellent and faster VMG than sailing in assy mode in all but the strongest of winds because the 200 is quite under canvassed and as such does not generate much apparent to help it down a run. The builder really pushed through the ban as they really wanted to be on the 90s assy bandwagon and it makes crewing the boat much easier. Ultimately the members voted for it to be banned at opens.

Assys only really make sense in fast, light boats that generate apparent wind allowing a good VMG.

Assys on slow boats mean you spend a lot of time sailing away from where you want to go ... on a slow boat a sym kite is a better solution (or an RS400 wing wing type system)


Edited by 2547 - 13 Aug 13 at 5:16pm
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 13 at 4:53pm
I imagine in a boat like a 200 it couldn't be sailed hot enough to out weigh soaking, fact is I have yet to sail that thing up there, it doesn't look to me like anything much other than a fast 'glider' sub planing shape so this could all be academic.

First I need to get my paws on it..
Snow Equipment Deals    New Core Kite website
Back to Top
transient View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 21 Aug 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 13 at 4:38pm
from my limited perspective, and I'll admit I haven't used one, the 200 srs looked to me the best attempt at making a square running assy. It had an extra pole for goosewinging the kite so that all of the sail was clear of the main and jib.The tweeker line allowed the halyard to pull from further up the mast whilst also allowing the kite head out further from the mast. Both aspects letting the kite work better in pushing mode.......I seem to remember reading somewhere that one of the reasons for banning it in the 200 SIs was that it wasn't in the true spirit of assy sailing.
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 13 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by Peaky


It would need to be a short L to stop it hitting the water when pointing down?

Well it got quite a deep bow, deeper than the angle a pole could swing in the narrow confines of that bow, short of a permanent T pole I can't think of another way to get the angle I'd need downwind..

Snow Equipment Deals    New Core Kite website
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 13 at 4:12pm
There's a heap of problems with a swing rig, not least the fact that the jib and kite might have more moment on the boom than the main - effectively sheeting in the main and making control impossible. I'm all for KISS myself, just use an RS100 pole (and possibly the kite too).
Back to Top
laser193713 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 13 May 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 889 		Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 13 at 3:36pm
The other major problem with this is that as soon as the kite filled the forward end would fall down to leeward and the jib would want to goosewing. Well, if I understand your system correctly anyway...
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 13 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Peaky

A lot of model yachts use a swing, or Balestron, rig where the boom carries on forward of the mast. The front of the boom swings out to windward as the main is eased. Normally they fly a jib off this forward bit of the boom, but you could fly a genny from it too. If the forward part of the boom was designed with the right flexibility it would bend off to leeward so that the tip was on the centreline when the boom was eased for a reach.


Interesting concept, it would have to be the jib though wouldn't it.

My latest thinking was an L shaped pole that swivelled. So normal running it's pointing down, swivel it and it comes to weather.
As much as I praise that swivel pole of the Alto it can be a bloody mare and forget to centre it before a drop, particularly something a bit hectic like drop gybe harden up and you can get into a right muddle.

I'm trying to prepare myself for the up coming psyconslaught, it looks like we're getting the green chitty permission slips, Trevs had to fake a hernia, but it seems to be working...

I was thinking you could have the jib on the boom and the kite pole telescoping out from that. But I don't think the Icon/pyscon needs a trick kite system. I'm sure even a modest kite between 12-14m^2 will be just fine on a normal sprit.
It would need to be a short L to stop it hitting the water when pointing down?
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 13 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by Peaky

A lot of model yachts use a swing, or Balestron, rig where the boom carries on forward of the mast. The front of the boom swings out to windward as the main is eased. Normally they fly a jib off this forward bit of the boom, but you could fly a genny from it too. If the forward part of the boom was designed with the right flexibility it would bend off to leeward so that the tip was on the centreline when the boom was eased for a reach.


Interesting concept, it would have to be the jib though wouldn't it.

My latest thinking was an L shaped pole that swivelled. So normal running it's pointing down, swivel it and it comes to weather.
As much as I praise that swivel pole of the Alto it can be a bloody mare and forget to centre it before a drop, particularly something a bit hectic like drop gybe harden up and you can get into a right muddle.

I'm trying to prepare myself for the up coming psyconslaught, it looks like we're getting the green chitty permission slips, Trevs had to fake a hernia, but it seems to be working...

Edited by iGRF - 13 Aug 13 at 3:18pm
Snow Equipment Deals    New Core Kite website
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 45678 9>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy