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Dinghy popularity |
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JimC 
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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 Topic: Dinghy popularityPosted: 01 Jul 13 at 9:46am |
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Not been the best of threads has it this one has it, IMNSHO the sooner it drops off the top of the list the better. To me it seems rather short on useful or even accurate content.
Edited by JimC - 01 Jul 13 at 9:46am |
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yellowwelly
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Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Posted: 01 Jul 13 at 10:10am |
I dunno, depends on your POV. It's an opinion based OP... and it's provided enough of a talking shop to hit 20 pages... the content of it though doesn't seem to suggest that many of us are that fussed about 'dinghy development'. I guess from an innovation point of view it's rather grim reading for industry folks. The market (if judged from this forum contribution anyway) just isn't that receptive to changing much, in fact seems to have gone into reverse gear somewhat- I know quite a few folks who've moved away from HP categories and gone into typical club racers. I guess that's why you see companies like P&B supporting this trend- they can justifiably offer not one, but two manufacturers of the Solo dinghy. (and please don't accuse me of pimping my class, I simply sail them as an alternative to a Laser as I know there is no other option locally for fleet racing.) Secondly we've seen enough feedback from posters who are training newbies that simply doesn't agree with the GRF school of cool. That rocks our perceptions... although deep down some of us who have sympathised with the essence of some of Grumpf's arguments, probably knew that anyway, even if we didn't want to admit it. One area that could be explored further is dinghy weight. I'll admit to not knowing where I am with this... I think some boats are simply too heavy, my Solo ain't light (not with all that lead in it and if I were handicap racing it only I would take it out and call my boat a Solo X and welcome a local handicap adjustment). The Contender is another prime example- I pulled on a trolley the other day... b'jessuz that was a shocker (or a sh*te dolly...) But too light and no thanks, that's equally bad in the stable manners department.... Where's the happy medium? I never found a Laser either too heavy or light... what does that weigh?
Edited by yellowwelly - 01 Jul 13 at 10:23am |
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Posted: 01 Jul 13 at 10:21am |
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I dunno, the original topic is an interesting one. If certain boats don't appeal to certain people, that's fine and its interesting to find out why. When those reasons are based on incorrect perceptions, I think it is fair to correct them. Not liking a boat cos it doesn't have kite is fine, but not liking a light boat because you think it is heavy is a mistake. You need to find another reason not to like it :)
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iGRF
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Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 01 Jul 13 at 10:23am |
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Well it has drifted off the central theme of Dinghy popularity and the seemingly lack of it, although tbh we had the biggest turnout on Sunday I think I've ever seen at our cub so we must be doing something right. On saturday there were a bunch of improvers enjoying the sun and onshore conditions and sunday despite having the biggest cock up I think we've ever had at a start with a raft of boats bashing each other over the line , a recall and restart saw champagne conditions as the breeze built from 8 to 18 knots.
I did have a silly conversation just before the race with a couple of our newer members who although dead keen are not making the progress they'd like due to their being probably a tad too heavy for the L3k they are campaigning. I suggested they might be a better off with my Alto should I end up selling it (half the other boats in our club are my old rides) and one them goes 'are there many to race against' so even here they've been sold the whole don't buy it unless there's a class bollox. They've never travelled, will never travel haven't got the basics dialled yet and frankly the Alto would at least put them mid fleet as one of their gripes was always coming last , yet here they are being fed the usual dinghy catch 22 'it's no good unless it has a class' self defeating nonsense. Some of the crap you are fed, believe and aspire to promote, you really couldn't write, never mind make up, so really beyond help imv. |
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Rupert
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Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 01 Jul 13 at 10:31am |
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If you want to go class racing, or have a small group of similar boats in a handicap race, then I'd have said that having a fair few boats around (for the want of a better word, a class) would be rather useful. If you don't mind being the only boat of your type, then it matters not. Can't see how asking the question is bollox.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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yellowwelly
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Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Posted: 01 Jul 13 at 10:36am |
No but by buying a fireball as an alternative they do at least protect their investment.... be that wanting to get into the travelling game or selling it on and buy a new one. I think we possibly approach this from differing starting points, if your club only offers the handicap cruise in company type race, then you might as well buy whatever you think you want at any given time. Bear in mind skill levels, time on the water and economic considerations like the above. However if you have decent fleet racing available, then this gives you a real dilemma. Sure, you can join in a timed procession if you want, then discover all the joys and pitfalls of all the 'imperfect solutions' the cottages throw out when it comes to the boat themselves; or alternatively you can get on with the process of racing boat-on-boat, mixing it in a start where it really, really matters and work on your pace in your weaker areas because come what may, if they are going quicker than you, they beat you and no spreadsheet and variable set by committee on the Hamble is going to make that situation go away.
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iGRF
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Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 01 Jul 13 at 10:52am |
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The Logic is this,
Question: Where does the greatest fall out come from, the back or the front of the fleet? Answer: The back of course where try as they may newcomers will hardly ever break through the wall of experience in same boat racing. Question: Where are the best sailors and racing tactics going on? Answer: At the front of the fleet. Logical reasoning.. buy a fast enough boat to keep you in touch with the front of the fleet until you feel you have the confidence to rejoin in a similar craft. Or buy a bandit and chisel some results... The sad fact, class racing is dying, I've never even seen it going on at club level in any volume (bar two or three Miracles down the lake) and seriously if that was all sailing was I'd take up Golf. So we encourage and train folk to work around what we've got and we are bucking the trend, but the status quo of accepted advice isn't helping, nor is the idiotic state of play with inland water dominating the handicap system. Edited by iGRF - 01 Jul 13 at 10:53am |
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yellowwelly
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Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Posted: 01 Jul 13 at 11:11am |
wrong again- it might be dead down your way, at your club, but in what 8 years of posting here I've only hear you talk about the 'mackerel fleet' once or twice. Maybe they've shrunk to nothing, but given how well they go on the sea it seems a shame- you'd be bang on for a Radial rig, but it would highlight some sailing inadequacies... just like my Solo sailing... I've forgotten so much about 'the game' in the last ten years trying out different shin-pads and gum shields... pretty depressing actually, but soldier onwards... and hope for some lightbulb moments like the other night, when I called a shift right downwind and took a couple of places.... downwind, light wind, in a Solo.... yep, not just held ground, but actually made a couple of places.  Around here class racing is growing- especially in our mackerel fleet. And our Miracle fleet. And our F15 fleet. Our Fireballs are a bit down in numbers compared to yesteryear... but it's still strong enough for good racing and will bounce back when the flood comes. Our Solo fleet is good- and locally our solo fleets are very stong- there's local opens most weekends if we want it!!! Class racing is not dying... not a club level anyway. Where is there actually good racing for say a Musto Skiff... yep, at clubs like Datchet or Stokes Bay where there's a fleet of them.
Edited by yellowwelly - 01 Jul 13 at 11:13am |
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iGRF
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Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 01 Jul 13 at 11:37am |
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Show me the coastal club where class racing is growing..
In fact, show me a coastal club where any kind of dinghy racing is growing. Please. I'm not just saying it, I'd genuinely be pleased to read of growth anywhere else.. - anyone? Oh and the mackerel fleet, they've got another ex windsurfer friend of mine, beating them up on the odd occasion when it's not too breezy. But that's our problem the windsurf race fleet has dwindled, only five out last Tuesday night. Edit MPS? They used to be big over at Whitstable, again ex windsurf racers craft of choice, not sure what's going on over there lately. We have an MPS guy out front more often than not, doesn't often win on handicap though but he enjoys himself which is the main thing. Edited by iGRF - 01 Jul 13 at 11:43am |
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winging it
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Joined: 22 Mar 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3958 |
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Posted: 01 Jul 13 at 11:43am |
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oh dear god.....
Newcomers don't need to go out on a limb, they need a class where there is an accessible bank of knowledge, be it verbal or via the internet, with proven techniques and settings that they can use as a starting point. The fireball class can provide that information, as can the many ex fireball sailors around most clubs up and down the country. They also need training and encouragement beyond level 2, as well as management of their expectations. Why should newbies be mid fleet? They need training/expereince to move them up, not a faster class! |
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the same, but different...
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