Dinghy popularity

Originally posted by Peaky I get that one may or may not like dangly poles, kites, trapezes, catamarans, daggerboards etc. but there's no need for language like that Jimbo! Windsurfer indeed... Mark, Mark profanities on the forum! And what on earth is katianism thongywotsit?

It's what we did for 3 hours a week in between hangovers... Y'know when you were 9 to 5ing in the engineering faculty.

Originally posted by blaze720 I'll be happy to revise my estimation of how icons go, as and when I get overtaken by one. That comment  might come back to haunt you before too long .  Seriiously there are quite a few 400's who already know that if they screw up at all they will have Icon all over them RTC's.... until they get  the 'right sort of course' naturally and '400' conditons.   Give Icon a go then see ....   I'm personally very careful about commenting on any other class until I've had a period of time in one.  I've tried 400's, will no doubt do so again in the future, but no they are not my personal favorate  ... but I do recognise the real appeal for many. Mike L.

I wouldn't consider myself 'bitten' at all.
I'm happy to revise my opinion about all sorts of boats. For instance based on what I observe on the water, I'm quite impressed with the D-one, a little less so with the RS100.
I've never really thought the RS400 was the best boat on the planet, in the abstract. But it delivers damn good racing against other RS400's, and pretty good racing against a range of boats we come up against. It's a good, sensible boat than a couple can sail and you can get a nice one to race for £4k or less. I've had excellent value for money out of mine.
As an RS400 sailor I hear lots of people commenting on other boats, we all know a good Merlin can often give us problems, and like us their handicap keeps eroding. But apart from involved parties, I'm not hearing of terribly many people blown away by the iCon.
Are they winning stuff at club level?
Are they surprising people at big PY events?
Are they delivering great boat-on-boat level racing anywhere?
Are they consistent, solid performers getting results in the top few of most races and doing well over a series?
Is their PY working out remarkably low for the size of boat?
If any of these things happen let's hear about it.
I'm virtually setting you up to tell us how well your boat is doing, so pleease don't just get defensive about your jibstick.

The only reason I'm remotely interested in iCons is precisely because I don't think the RS400 is the pinnacle of dinghy design, it's a 20 year old concept, (maybe the best package of its day?), and I want to know how much better we could do today. How have hull forms, construction and rigs moved on? That's my dinghy development bit.

Now I am off to enjoy a spot of one design racing, that's the other side of my 'balanced' personality.

Originally posted by yellowwelly Originally posted by Peaky I get that one may or may not like dangly poles, kites, trapezes, catamarans, daggerboards etc. but there's no need for language like that Jimbo! Windsurfer indeed... Mark, Mark profanities on the forum! And what on earth is katianism thongywotsit? It's what we did for 3 hours a week in between hangovers... Y'know when you were 9 to 5ing in the engineering faculty.

Ah.posh name for Naval gazing.

Is that what the negativity is about? The Icon posing a threat to RSdom? It's nothing like a 400... yet but maybe when I give it a kite and a wire and a swivel pole, then it will most definitely be all over an RS400 or two like a bad rash. And so it should be, the 400 great boat that it is and they did have a half arse go at updating it recently didn't they? Is still, let me spell it for you once more, H E A V Y and we (that is the royal we) do not want heavy, heavy can go to hell in a hand basket, I've picked an Icon up OK without the mast but hey it is almost as light as my EPS without its mast.

So it is light, it wont sink or gather water to have to worry about baling, has clean lines and is simple to use, who cares about dangle poles, fling them over the side if you don't like them, I want a kite anyway so wpnt be messing with them. I saw this neat thing someone made for a 14, I want it or something similar and will re route the forestay on top of it.


Get some of this up the front give it a proper name and we'll have a decent boat yet..

... We all support the classes we choose, that is natural.  However why not simply ask to try something before expounding such strident -ve views - such requests are not something that would be refused by any reasonable manufacturer or CA. 

Without first hand knowledge, and this generally means 'having a go' when talking about boats, sweeping statements can come across as just partisan or simply naive.  ... Otherwise they are about as useful to the overall discussion as asking a true blue Man City fan to critique the Man United team.

For what is worth I have sailed 400's, nothing too much to dislike there, they are what they are, but they are not the only choice out there.  

Icon is faster than a Tasar but that really was not the objective .. it is easy to make a faster boat but not what we set out to do.  Our prime objective was different - to develop a modern 2-sail boat that was accesible to a wide number of racers, simple and easy to sail, carried crew weight well, went as well as a Tasar when it blows but critically ALSO went as well as say a Phantom in the light sfuff.  If you know the Tasar it is a fantastic boat in a blow but more than a little 'sticky' in anything less especially if the combined crew weight was much higher than their minmimum one of 130kg.  

Try one and you will find out that we succeeded !

Mike L.