Dinghy popularity

Selling a new class is always going to be hard.
The market is distorted by the way most people get into a class via used boats.
That way, a lot of people don't see £11k for a new 400, they bought a used one 3 years ago, are committed to the class so they trade up for perhaps half the headline price, getting as far up the fleet as they ever will. If you look at the price as being the cost of doing rather than the cost of having, it is what you pay for however many events you hope to do.
With a new class, you seem to get all of the cost and very few events, so each event looks very pricey.
Even if someone jumps into a class like say the Merlins, paying £15k for a new boat with trailers and covers, the depreciation is quite reasonable as a four year old one will be the thick end of £10k or more if it's got lots of sails.

The icon specifically I suspect suffers from too little beam for righting moment in proportion to its sail area. Couple with a dangly pole which makes crewing it just as technical as sailing with a kite, only more subtle. Only seen them at the HISC perisher, where I was not blown away by the performance, given that the course should have suited a 2-rag boat.
It's a nice looking boat, but apart from the carbon stick, it is something that could have been built last century.
The dangly makes it a 5/10 on the 'simplify' and its 2/10 on the 'add lightness' IMHO.
It also fails because boat-on-boat, there's nothing to race it against except perhaps an Albacore.

Stick a kite on one, you'd have a less developed alternative to the 59er. With the same need for a trapeze. Maybe if you went symmetric, but then it would just look like a Scorpion for bigger people.

What boat is going to bring in new people to the sport? Well maybe the RS Venture might have the heavy marketing to reach out to the poor souls who read too many magazines or go to boat shows and can't afford a Bennytoe.
But I think there is more to be gained selling the activity rather than the possession.
In the same way that groups of people from the office go Karting on mickey-mouse tracks in old warehouses, or Scuba in the pool, maybe there is a market for getting people doing some very basic sailing, no experience assumed?

If I'm talking to a non participant about Scuba, and they show an interest, I can suggest they go to Andark for £10 (? it was a while ago!) they get an amusing evening 's try-dive.
If they express an interest in sailing, what do you do? Sorry mate, my boat's a bit hyperformance to take fat beginners for a ride....

Originally posted by iGRF Originally posted by RS400atC Sorry mate, my boat's a bit hyperformance to take fat beginners for a ride.... And there you have the essence of what I'm saying, can't remember the percentage, but back in the day lots of folk entered windsurfing via their friends letting them 'have a go', so either they get to have a go in a beginner hulk or not because your boat is too <insert appropriate reason from the following list> Ugly difficult wooden complicated... As to the Icon my plan would be kite and single trap to help my 1st year entry level crew continue on his winning streak without having to worry about the boat filling up with water and sinking (that kind of puts new folk off).

Frankly, I personally am not much disposed to taking beginners out.
I'd rather direct them to a trained coach with the people skills and teaching ability to make a proper job of it.
I'm more likely to put them off.
I wouldn't want beginners to be in a boat they had to worry about scratching, and I don't want to race a boat that's been beaten up by beginners.
We have endless choice of boats.
Not only do they come in all shapes and sizes, but there are boats around, paid for by lottery money doing sweet FA 167 hours a week.
What we lack is the trainers and infrastructure to make something happen, or maybe there is little market for it?
When did you last see 'try sailing' advertised to the wider world?

Originally posted by iGRF Originally posted by RS400atC Sorry mate, my boat's a bit hyperformance to take fat beginners for a ride.... And there you have the essence of what I'm saying, can't remember the percentage, but back in the day lots of folk entered windsurfing via their friends letting them 'have a go', so either they get to have a go in a beginner hulk or not because your boat is too <insert appropriate reason from the following list> Ugly difficult wooden complicated... "As to the Icon my plan would be kite and single trap to help my 1st year entry level crew continue on his winning streak without having to worry about the boat filling up with water and sinking (that kind of puts new folk off)".

Originally posted by RS400atC how will it be better than a 29er/L4K/iso/Buzz etc?If the centreboard is really the killer feature, why not slap a trapeze on a 400?Come to that, why single trapeze? If trapezing is in the equation why not the helm?Rig wise, how big a kite? rest of it same as icon?Assume you mean asy?Don't mean to sound anti, just lots of ....why?

29er? It's a bethwaite straight rocker low volume nose daggerboard destined to nose dive and pitch pole at every opportunity on the water we use and not much use on inland round the cans due to the lack of a wing wang and too big kite imv. L4K is dead and too heavy for anybody to even lift the coffin to bury it, ISO ditto, Buzz? What's a buzz? suspect the same.
Why do I like it? Because it is clean and simple and I can lift it. I'm not yet totally convinced but it's a better bet in a couple of ways. 1 it wont fill up with water and sink like the Alto can give a fair impression of doing on the odd occasion, 2) It won't pull my shoulder out of joint like the Alto has just done recently pulling it down the beach, honestly I'm so done with heavy. This is the year 2013 no boat should weigh more than reasonable human body weight all up and we all know reasonable human body weight ends at the upper limit of 80 kgs. We're racers ffs why why why do we even consider extra weight? Why only the totally moronic or class lead sheep.

Edited by iGRF - 28 Jun 13 at 7:02pm