New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: windshifts and luffing rights
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

windshifts and luffing rights
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Reuben T View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 13
Location: Lyme Regis
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 74 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Reuben T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: windshifts and luffing rights
    Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 9:03am
Originally posted by Brass

 
 
If you change course all the way up to head to wind then past head to wind, and the other boat also passes head to wind, (or as in the example you described, the wind flicks and puts both of you past head to wind) then you are both subject to rule 13 at the same time and the boat on the other's port side shall keep clear (rule 13, last sentence). 


does this mean that the main rules issue in this situation is who has to keep clear after the wind shift rather than why they were effectively tacked by the wind shift? Would I have been exonerated if I had been protested?
Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 4:17am

Lets leave the 'shall not sail above her proper course' limitation in rule 17 aside for a moment.

Presumably you're asking the question because you remember someone saying 'you can't luff beyond head to wind'.
 
That's a piece of somewhat inaccurate shorthand.
 
The rules analysis, for you as a leeward overlapped boat is as follows.
 
As leeward overlapped boat, the windward boat must keep clear of you (rule 11) even when you change course towards the wind, as long as when changing course you give the windward boat room to keep clear (rule 16).
 
You can change course all the way up to head to wind and this holds true, but if you, yourself pass head to wind, you become subject to rule 13 While Tacking and must keep clear of the other boat if she has not also passed head to wind.
 
This is where 'can't luff past head to wind' comes from:  you can't luff past head to wind yourself.
 
If you change course all the way up to head to wind, giving the windward boat room to keep clear, and the windward boat, having less good boat handling than you or for whatever reason passes head to wind and you don't, then the other boat becomes subject to rule 13 While Tacking and must keep clear of you as long as you have not passed head to wind yourself.
 
If you change course all the way up to head to wind then past head to wind, and the other boat also passes head to wind, (or as in the example you described, the wind flicks and puts both of you past head to wind) then you are both subject to rule 13 at the same time and the boat on the other's port side shall keep clear (rule 13, last sentence).  Remember this as 'the boat on the right is in the right'.  It means that if you both started out on starboard tack, with you to leeward, and both came up and pass head to wind, you will be on the other boat's port side and will be required to keep clear.  If you had started out on port tack, with you to leeward, and both came up and passed head to wind, then you will be 'on the right and in the right' and the other boat will be requried to keep clear.
 
Rule 17 is a limitation rule.  It says that if you became overlapped within two of your hull lengths, and from clear astern, you shall not sail above your proper course.  You can certainly sail above close hauled, pinching or luffing, up to the course you need to fetch the mark, but no higher.
 


Edited by Brass - 27 Jun 13 at 5:25am
Back to Top
Quagers View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 24 Oct 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Quagers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 2:05am
How was the overlap established? Did you have lugging rights in the first place? I assume from the tone of the question that you feel that you didnt.


< id="adlesse_unifier_magic_element_id" style="display:none;">




Edited by Quagers - 27 Jun 13 at 2:05am
Back to Top
Reuben T View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 13
Location: Lyme Regis
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 74 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Reuben T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 10:38pm
 I was almost on the lay-line to a windward mark with another boat just to windward of me, I was pinching to make the mark, forcing the other boat to pinch in order to keep clear. A sudden wind-shift then meant that we were past head to wind. Because I was forcing him above the corse he would have taken had I not been there (and therefore was the reason he became effectively luffed past head to wind) should I have done turns? 

Also, if he had borne away faster when the wind-shift occurred in order not to almost tack and had made contact, would either of us had to do turns for that?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy