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Old Timer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Old Timer


Why on earth do you think that all areas of the sport should be accessable to a novice?


Why shouldn't they, give me the name of another sport that makes inaccessibility a feature?

Pro Golfers use the same stuff as Amateurs, Pro Cyclists etc etc. It is precisely because of the inaccessibility factor that is driving the sport to the margins of coffin polishing.

Kitesurfing is a pretty high on the list of 'dare devil' activity yet every weekend hundreds are being taught and they use the gear they are taught on.

Pretty much every sport has different equipment for experts and novices.

You would not put someone who has never cocked their leg over a bike on a downhill MTB and push them off an alp ... or put them on a fixed wheel track bike and send them round a velodrome ... they would fall off.

Same with golf, the clubs used by a pro have such a small sweet spot and novice couldn't use them.

There are many craft that are accessible to a complete beginners; every week 1000s of newbies are jumping in boats at sailing schools and at beach resorts in the Caribbean many people get their first taste of sailing in a Sunfish or a Hobie.

There is loads of kit suitable and accessible to the novice, I just don't see the problem.


Originally posted by winging it

all the gear, no idea....

The only problem is the one highlighted here where people have ambitions beyond their skill level, they buy the wrong kit and end up in a mess.

I have observed a newbie windsurfer launch his shiny new board on an ebb tide and off shore wind being recovered by the RNLI.

I have also seen a kite surfer batter himself against the beach huts. He was "rescued" by some other kitesurfers, who subsequently gave him a bollocking and told him to go home.

I suspect if I hung about at golf clubs I would probably observe someone hacking their way up the first with the wrong clubs ...

People with this mentality cant, or wont, be helped ... this is not a fault of the equipment.


 


Edited by Old Timer - 26 Jun 13 at 4:05pm
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 4:06pm
Or they might just be buying the kit once, in the hope and real expectation that they will be good enough to deserve the price of the pro equipment, and thus avoid having to trade in and trade up at more cost. They could also be under the impression that the higher the price the better the quality and the better the product, with the expectation that it will improve there game? It really depends on the sales person.

It is not always the purchaser that is at fault, driven by there ego driven brand addiction.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

Or they might just be buying the kit once, in the hope and real expectation that they will be good enough to deserve the price of the pro equipment, and thus avoid having to trade in and trade up at more cost. They could also be under the impression that the higher the price the better the quality and the better the product, with the expectation that it will improve there game? It really depends on the sales person.

It is not always the purchaser that is at fault, driven by there ego driven brand addiction.

That is a fair point, people could get sold into the wrong stuff ... I am sure it happens. But that is not the fault of the equipment, its designers or builders.

However, with any significant purchase it pays to do your homework. I don't think a beginner in any sport could expect their first purchase to last them through their skill progression to expert. 




Edited by Old Timer - 26 Jun 13 at 5:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 5:54pm
I sometimes wonder if there isn't an element of grass is greener/ignorance is bliss when we compare ourselves with other sports we may not know to the same level...

In motorcycle racing an example is the difference between a serious grand prix level road racing bike as opposed to a street machine, and most especially something with slick tyres. I never got that far myself and I'm decades out of date, but by all accounts the first time anyone rides on slicks they come back convinced something is very badly wrong with the bike. Certainly in my day if the average street rider had gone out on something like a TZ350 there would have been blood on the track... Plus little things like "what do you mean it needs a top end rebuild every 500 miles!"

Edited by JimC - 26 Jun 13 at 5:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 7:35pm
Seriously do you lot ever actually read stuff before replying?

You (collective sport marketing term) are pointing newcomers to plastic tubs and heavy under canvassed slughulks, whilst using the glamour of the foiler, the 49er, the skiff, the big fall over and kill people cats to attract us (us being collective ill informed sailing wannabes).

What I'm pointing out as usual is the need for fast thrill riding easy to handle craft, which should not be beyond the wit of man to devise and less fuddy duddy, coffin polishing, up turned nose, 'we don't sail those here' attitudes on the ground.

I want to go to the shows each year and see new bright shiny boats, upgraded if necessary from last years model without the damn silly 'can't do that it'll upset the class' attitude that is so stupidly prevalent and the reason there are too many classes.

Had some classes evolved faster then some of them might have filled the gap, as it is other than boats like the Blaze, Phantom, V3000 and new creations like the Alto and X1, there aint much choice that you could point Adult newcomers with the readies at as a first craft which might give them the thrill factor that we take for granted.

Edited by iGRF - 26 Jun 13 at 7:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 8:02pm
THEY DON'T WANT THAT SORT OF THING!!!  Please, speak to some genuine newcomers, they do not want the thrill factor, they want a boat they can sail and enjoy while they improve.  They do not want to run before they can walk because they know they will fall flat on their faces if they do. 

You are out of touch with the grass roots, thinking everyone wants to go fast and race.  There an awful lot of sailors who don't want to do that, and who are quite happy cruising sedately round a pond.
the same, but different...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 8:05pm
+1 Nessa.

And more than that - the boats which deliver what GRF asks for are the unevolved ones - long with rocker and minimal flare.

You canna change the laws of physics!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 8:21pm
Originally posted by winging it

THEY DON'T WANT THAT SORT OF THING!!!  Please, speak to some genuine newcomers, they do not want the thrill factor, they want a boat they can sail and enjoy while they improve.  They do not want to run before they can walk because they know they will fall flat on their faces if they do.  You are out of touch with the grass roots, thinking everyone wants to go fast and race.  There an awful lot of sailors who don't want to do that, and who are quite happy cruising sedately round a pond.


Well whoever those newcomers are wingers, they aint sticking are they? We're not exactly swilling with clubs with their membership fit to burst, sadly and don't take this the wrong way, I have nothing but respect for you on a personal sailing level even though we have never met, but you are in all probability (accept I may be wrong) part of the typical RYA splash and dash give it a go pile them in and move them on centres that we are also cursed with in windsurfing.
Mostly they are creches for kids or tryout deals for adults with no great desire to make anyone stick, so you get that kind of participant, next stop kayaks or a boat trip round the pier.

And... late edit, they are adequately catered for already, what's the problem with wanting better?

Edited by iGRF - 26 Jun 13 at 8:26pm
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Old Timer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 8:50pm
Originally posted by iGRF

the need for fast thrill riding easy to handle craft, which should not be beyond the wit of man to devise .

Well then what you need is a Dart 18 or if you are feeling brave an F18. They will fill your need for speed.

Please keep in mind I suspect your needs as a novice are not typical as pointed or above. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 9:26pm
Is it winter? I'm sure that is when we normally get this thread.
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