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L123456 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dinghy popularity
    Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 10:46am
Originally posted by transient

There's a quite a few cases of verbal abuse from several people on this forum lately, not worth singling out individuals........overall though it makes it a very unpleasant place to visit.


...perhaps the combo of recession and bad weather is pinching a few nerves 

Compared to the "other sailing forum" this place is like a kindergarten ....

It is just banter ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote scotsfinn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 10:42am
Oh dear me .... Mr Transient ..... it's only iGRF being iGRF ..... and he's no more opinionated than some of the social sectors he refers to." Let there be Light (heartedness) and Let there be GRF!" he means it all in the best possible taste ..... its only forum after all
 
Lets ligthen up and vivre non PC!!!!!! Wink
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Old Timer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 10:37am
Originally posted by iGRF

 
Originally posted by Old Timer

Whilst you are all gnashing your teeth over this 60 foiling Moths are just rigging up for their Nationals ....

I can pretty much guarantee nobody newly attracted to the sport.

Of course not, this is one of the elite sections of the sport, it is for experts who enjoy the challenge of the equipment and the racing.

Why on earth do you think that all areas of the sport should be accessible to a novice?

Why should the experts choose beginner equipment?

It is horses for courses ...
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transient View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 10:16am
There's a quite a few cases of verbal abuse from several people on this forum lately, not worth singling out individuals........overall though it makes it a very unpleasant place to visit.


...perhaps the combo of recession and bad weather is pinching a few nerves 


Edited by transient - 26 Jun 13 at 10:18am
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 10:10am
Originally posted by iGRF

would that appeal to the bankers, ad execs and other high flying cash rich wannabes,


That's what leadmines are for...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 9:50am
Originally posted by iGRF

....., would that appeal to the bankers, ad execs and other high flying cash rich wannabes, instead of what would happen now to Johnny Banker.. .....
 
Am I the only person thinking we can live without some of these people in our sport?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 9:33am
Originally posted by L123456

I asked my mate who is a gp this ...
Did he give you any help with your erectile dysfunction problem?

Originally posted by Old Timer

Whilst you are all gnashing your teeth over this 60 foiling Moths are just rigging up for their Nationals ....

I wonder how many ex MPS and racing windsurfers there are within that lot, ex RS600,MPS etc.. I think I can pretty much guarantee nobody newly attracted to the sport.

However, had that foiling been developed around a more stable platform, easier to launch, would that appeal to the bankers, ad execs and other high flying cash rich wannabes, instead of what would happen now to Johnny Banker.. 'Oh new to sailing sir, well you need to try this fabulous Laser 2000, all the thrills of slug racing in one incredibly heavy to lift package...'

We have exactly that scenario at our club, the rich banker's trips are becoming less and less frequent thanks to that tub.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 9:20am
Whilst you are all gnashing your teeth over this 60 foiling Moths are just rigging up for their Nationals ....
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L123456 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 13 at 8:35am

Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by iGRF

My opinions are fact 

                                      ........... to me.   

I am sure there is a medical name for your stance on this ... 


I asked my mate who is a gp this ... He said moron covers it ....


Anyway ...



I'm not sure these analogy with cycling are at all useful. 

Pretty much everyone learns to cycle as a child, everyone can do it it is easy. 

To develop different bikes to sell for different types of terrain and use is a massive mainstream market. 

Sailing is perhaps more like amature Motorsport or microlighting or flying. These are more involved hobbies with complexed equipment that you need to learn to use and that have safety implications. 


Edited by L123456 - 26 Jun 13 at 8:38am
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 13 at 10:57pm

Getafix's examples of MTB and cycling are apt, because MTB's rise shows that new sports can rise outside of the "establishment", even when there is rival equipment that is favoured by the "establishment". We see the same thing in dinghy sailing when Solos, Sabres (Aus), Thistles (USA) etc thrive despite not being part of the ISAF/national authority stream. That seems to put the knocker on the claims that they only reason we're not all sailing foiling skiffs is that the "establishment" favour other boats.

MTBs, Solos etc seem to underline that if you build it right, they will come even when it's not trendy or cool, or driven by international bodies. On the other hand, even massive support from the media and sailing establishment doesn't seem to be enough to guarantee that a class will become popular; as an example the amazing performance and publicity of the modern Moth seems to have generated only two strong national fleets (UK and Oz).

So is being cool over-rated, and doesn't that mean that grass-roots success is very possible and should be celebrated if we want the sport to become more popular again?
 
Maybe part of the reason so many of us sail '55-'75 designs is that in that era people were less obsessed with speed and therefore you could design a "red hot racing machine" that paid more attention to practical things like economy, durability and ease of handling. As Peaky said, making a boat faster is easy, but it makes the boat harder to sail in many ways.

The cycling boom is interesting because bicycle design is so heavily restricted by UCI rules that there is very, very little real improvement, and yet that design "progression" keeps shops in business even when it makes no real performance difference to 99.9999% of the users. It's an example that could show that turnover can be generated without obsolescence. Down here, though, the bike shops are now very good at NOT selling performance gear to noobs because they realise that burning people off from the sport is not good in the long run..... unfortunately many sectors of the sailing industry haven't learned that lesson.

And while bikes can be expensive, there is (here anyway) a fairly strong tendency to sell gear when one upgrades. This seems to indicate that many people do have pretty tight budgets in some ways and perhaps that underlines that dinghy sailors aren't tightwads as often claimed. For example I just bought a pair of unused carbon drink bottle cages from another rider who went to all the hassle of advertising them on a forum and then mailing them, for $35. That is common and it indicates that many people don't have limitless cash for their toys. It's also an example of how the industry can get people into profitable "upgradeitis" that sailing hasn't worked out.


BTW Rodney, Jim and I were merely trying to discuss an issue with you. We did not insult you or your craft. Please do not insult other posters (we never insulted you) as it is against the spirit and rules of the forum.


Edited by Chris 249 - 26 Jun 13 at 6:18am
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