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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The RS100 Owners Thread
    Posted: 15 May 13 at 2:12pm

i'm not sure why they dont just stick with the two rigs and you then have to make a decsion on the day.  Seems a bit of a USP to me.  That 10.2 is a rocket ship with a light weight on board in the light stuff.  Obviously owning both rigs is going to drive the price of the boat up.  But IMNSHO its probably the best thing for the class.....And thats from a D1 sailor!


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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 13 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

In some ways, free choice of rig size was a USP for the class, to change that after people have bought their boats is a drawback of joining a new class where the rules are not well defined.

I agree- although it never really materialised into a 'choose your weapons' 18ft skiff style situation.

There were always 8.4 sailors moaning that they were slower, and that 'it wasn't fair' that they had the same EN issued by the RYA initially...  

Really I wanted to say at the time, 'STFU and buy the bigger sail then!' but for reasons of diplomacy, I opted for a more tactful approach.  Certainly my experiences were that if the right guy had the right rig on then the racing was fair- it didn't need any class rules to determine that though... if a guy was getting blown away on 10.2, then what possible harm was it if he skipped lunch and rigged up a smaller sail to enjoy it more?

I always believed that it had the potential to be one class, not 3.  I guess it kind of throws open a discussion about the validity of the ISAF recognised class status- certainly for the minority 10.2 and 7.4 sailors. 
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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 13 at 2:21pm
I love Class forums, the blaze is now having a debate about the use of Carbon masts and splitting the fleet......
 
.....I seem to remember a few yars ago Mike being very vocal about not want ing to split what they had by introducing a kite.  So they launched that massively succesful new Halo class....Now with Carbon masts the class is looking more fragmented.  Lets resurect the Blaze kite thread as well, forum has been to quite lately.

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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 13 at 2:27pm
no point splitting the Blaze fleet yet... not until they sort out their supplier issues and can masts to the folks who've ordered them.  Good job Graeme's not sailing them still... it would be Praestalor the Second!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote haroosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 13 at 3:44pm
Great,
I always thought the laser/laser radial/laser 4.7 concept was the way to go.
I never liked the idea of rig changing depending on wind strengths and venue...
Result!
Keith
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 13 at 3:47pm
It's only a proposal chaps, primarily trying to address the scoring in a mixed fleet - a conundrum with no right answer. Personally, I don't think the wording is quite right (it ignores the 7.2 sail for one thing) - i am canvassing that it goes back for redrafting.

The key point is that the racing is at least as tight as ever, even when it was blowing old boots at times at POSH last w/e. In one race in particular, places 4-9 were spread across only 4 or so boat lengths - and first and second not that far away either.
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 13 at 10:23am
Originally posted by haroosh


I never liked the idea of rig changing depending on wind strengths and venue...


Neither did I to be fair... but given the boat was launched with more than one rig, something we all knew about before parting with the final balance payments; I felt that was the lesser of two evils than decimating the fleet before it even started.  This current situation was predicted way back on this thread.  

So looking at the 2012 national results, you can see 7 entries for the 10.2 fleet.... three of which are RS employees, and 3 are not expected to be returning.  There are only 29 entries in the 8.4 rig in total.... it's not looking like its growing, not the way we all would have hoped.  I'm sure we had more overall numbers at Parkstone in the first year!!!  

If there's only 4 or so entries for the 10.2 Nationals this year, then I reckon that will pretty much be the last one.... a sad situation, forced through because of this rule change.


Edited by pondmonkey - 16 May 13 at 10:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 13 at 12:46pm
Hi Ruscoe

A bit of background info might help understand what was decided ... The Blaze class has debated at AGMs and internally for well over a decade on the adoption or not of carbon masts.  It was not a new issue at all - after all if the boat had been launched any later than 1996 it would alsmost certainly have had them from day one - like virtually everything that came after it.  Also the carbon boom was adopted over a decade ago etc etc very successfully.  We are if anything a one-design that allows careful change in the long term....

A spinnaker would never have got a 'yes' vote ... ever !  and had never seriously been considered. (and you have plenty of choice out there already for that style of racing)   A change in mast material did go through ... but after only after over 10 years of debate.  The class went 'late' but benefits now from all the obvious and less obvious lessons learnt from earlier 'switchers'. 

The AGM vote in 2012 took us as builders by surprise as well.  However this was not passed on a miserable turnout at the AGM by a small majority - it was an overwhelming 'Yes' both at the well attended AGM meeting and via the large postal vote.   We expected it to be deferred for yet another 3 years frankly.

I'm was in favour for the long term myself but commercially and in the short term was happy enough to keep to alloy.  Sure carbon masts was always likely to  be difficult in the short term as such votes are unlikely ever to get a 100% vote .... just like for for anything else.  However the carbon mast is 'one-design' and is also attracting more than a few 'newbies' to the class. ... ones who would not have ever considered a Blaze with our histororic 'scaffold pole' M7 .. (effectively a stiff Fireball / 470 section with characteristics to match)   It opens up the already excellent high wind potential of the Blaze to more of the fleet for more of the time.

We fully understand and appreciate the views of those who did not want to adopt the carbon option.   Their views are also logical and as strongly held as those who voted 'yes'  ..   but we cannot ignore a clear majority, particularly an overwhelming one.

Mike Lyons (Cirrus)

PS - AS builders we can see that there will be an increasing number of redundant Blaze M7's in the seasons to come - so we have decided to develop a new use them in a new  format ... HALO the big rig version of the Blaze will continue to use alloy for a further 5+ years at least (as long as they want but for at least this time period) .    The M7's in this format can be set more upright (like the current Halo mast)  and will carry a  redesigned Halo sail... The exact sail area is subject to 'proving' later this year (but like the current Halo rig will be approx 10-12% larger than the Blaze) ...             


 
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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 13 at 1:00pm
IMO, a mix of jealousy and resistance to change by a minority, shouldn't stifle progress for the majority.  

The Blaze needed a carbon stick and they have two sizes of sail on offer.  

RS100 has a carbon mast (thankfully) and they have 3 different sizes of sail, obviously feel the need to have a results format sorted out, ahead of regattas.

Fail to see how either class is 'split' or in 'crisis'.

Frankly that's a complete over dramatisation of the situation, perhaps others have agenda's here....
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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 13 at 1:14pm
Mike,
I'm only taking the pi$$! The carbon stick for the Blaze is in my opinion the right thing for the class, you will always get ressitance to change within a class as some members will not be able to afford the increase but you cant stand still as standign still is actually moving backwards .  Not sure i will agree the Halo was the right thing, but its your trainset and all.

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