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Replica Laser/Torch parts

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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Replica Laser/Torch parts
    Posted: 27 Apr 13 at 8:31am
Originally posted by gary145


Originally posted by fdsailor

Head above the parapet here...duck!!! I don't wholly agree with Mark's article and many of the comments. Yes it would be much better for the club sailor (i.e. the majority). But there are implications.The Laser phenomenon at grand-prix international level
is a class which hosts very professional level events, often with
builder supplied boats, with all the peripheral 'circus' that goes along
with prestigious events. The money for these events has to come from
somewhere. Whilst there are sponsors, I suspect that at least part of
all this has to be subsidized by a margin on spare parts.


 
why should the club sailor subsidize the top events?  Shouldn't they be self financing?
 
 


They're expensive enough (ie at least as pricey as equivalent regattas in smaller classes without an ailing quasi Marxist philosophy) so I suspect again that nothing from the several hundred percent markup on the price of your boat or parts is going there - somebody is on the take from the new boat cash once again.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by gary145

why should the club sailor subsidize the top events?  Shouldn't they be self financing?
 


Surely you're not suggesting that idle f**king layabouts on the ISAF circuit should get a job like the rest of us?
Best wishes from deep in the woods

SB

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gary145 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:39pm
Originally posted by fdsailor

Head above the parapet here...duck!!!

I don't wholly agree with Mark's article and many of the comments. Yes it would be much better for the club sailor (i.e. the majority). But there are implications.

The Laser phenomenon at grand-prix international level is a class which hosts very professional level events, often with builder supplied boats, with all the peripheral 'circus' that goes along with prestigious events. The money for these events has to come from somewhere. Whilst there are sponsors, I suspect that at least part of all this has to be subsidized by a margin on spare parts.

 
why should the club sailor subsidize the top events?  Shouldn't they be self financing?
 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 11:34am
that's the beauty of the potential of Kirby working with the replica market... it would tidy up the issue so that there isn't any 'blind eye' culture.  

Everyone would be racing with legal kit- it strengthens the one design club racing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fdsailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:53am
Just to set out my turf here, I think that the status quo of clubs turning a blind eye to non-official kit whilst ILCA or whoever insist on genuine kit for the full circuit is probably the best option. They just need to make that official kit better value for money - i.e. make it last longer and perhaps be honest about where that markup is going. Open up the replica market in full and those (possibly circuit subsidizing) markups will have to be found somewhere else (probably through the class subs). The replica sellers will look good as their sails will still cost the same, but the class will have a real expensive administrative headache ensuring consistency, and will have to pass those admin costs on to their members along with circuit subsidization costs. Thats a good idea to remove any trace of where the sails were made though. Just my opinion !
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:46am
Originally posted by JimC

If anyone thinks allowing multiple manufacturers would reduce the price of sails I suggest they check out the price of North Optimist rags... Competition within a class puts up prices, because fastest sells best, its only competition between classes that reduces them.

I think the Oppi class is a bit of a special case as it is funded by over zealous parents who think little Jonny is going to the Olympics.

Just turn up at any open and you will see more massive motorhomes and spectator RIBs than you can shake a stick at ... Oppi is not representative of any other dinghy class, it has been corrupted by rich parents.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:31am
I remember a fascinating speech from the CEO of a company that was a successful, profitable and long lasting monopoly. His secret, never make so much money that your customers think you are profiteering (either due to cost or poor product).

As soon as people think you are profiteering it invites other potential competitors to try and muscle in on the money. If you keep below the radar, then people just accept the niche, that it is working and therefore too difficult to compete against. That leaves the monopoly to just be a healthy long serving company to it's customers.

I wish more CEOs were like this and more importantly able to keep shareholders on board that this is the best strategy.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:26am
Originally posted by JimC

If anyone thinks allowing multiple manufacturers would reduce the price of sails I suggest they check out the price of North Optimist rags... Competition within a class puts up prices, because fastest sells best, its only competition between classes that reduces them.

agreed to a level - that  is why if I were Kirby I'd debadge the approved manufacturers, thus reducing the exposure of the brands.

it's a poor example though, North are never cheap and not always the best:

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:18am
If anyone thinks allowing multiple manufacturers would reduce the price of sails I suggest they check out the price of North Optimist rags... Competition within a class puts up prices, because fastest sells best, its only competition between classes that reduces them.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fdsailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 13 at 10:14am
I think Rastegar is bad news, and I don't agree with ISAF or ILCA. But I also don't think it's as clear cut as many are making out, that's all. Without transparency in pricing structures it's all going to remain conjecture, but the money to support arguably the finest Laser OD racing events needs to come from somewhere, and my basic question is if part of the inflated prices comes from the need to subsidize other areas of the class, and if this goes then does the CA need to take up the slack by increasing subscription fees? I wonder if RS have a similar pricing structure and do this subsidization thing too (although with much better quality parts)?


Edited by fdsailor - 26 Apr 13 at 10:15am
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