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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wiki Sail by GRF
    Posted: 18 Apr 13 at 12:11pm
Someone back there clicked..

Taken to it's absolute humidity, wind with rain in it you will feel a whole lot more than wind without rain in it.

Why? Because the transmitted feel of the liquid is greater than that of air, get the sceintologists to explain it some other way by all means, but just the stinging sensation you feel on your face in wind driven rain should do it for you.

So, maybe, it's because with high moisture content there is extra drive from the moisture element, either way, you need a smaller sail than that given wind might be at the other end of the extreme when it's hot and sunny yet still the same windspeed.

That said, the transited performance doesn't seem to be any greater, no one appears to be going faster in wet wind than dry, it's just as I said right from the start, the feel is different which I accept you dont have to the same measure in a boat with fixed rigging so how would you be expected to know?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 13 at 12:26pm
I don't think about things like that when I'm sailing which is probably the reason why I beat you at the fom, grf. Stop worrying about it and get sailing
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 13 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Someone back there clicked..

Taken to it's absolute humidity, wind with rain in it you will feel a whole lot more than wind without rain in it.

Why? Because the transmitted feel of the liquid is greater than that of air, get the sceintologists to explain it some other way by all means, but just the stinging sensation you feel on your face in wind driven rain should do it for you.

So, maybe, it's because with high moisture content there is extra drive from the moisture element, either way, you need a smaller sail than that given wind might be at the other end of the extreme when it's hot and sunny yet still the same windspeed.

That said, the transited performance doesn't seem to be any greater, no one appears to be going faster in wet wind than dry, it's just as I said right from the start, the feel is different which I accept you dont have to the same measure in a boat with fixed rigging so how would you be expected to know?

Graeme, I think we need to separate our sense of touch with Force (as a defined term in physics rather than some other woo-woo lack-of-definition). One is not necessarily a function of the other.

As a proof, if you put your wrist under a gently running tap running at blood temperature and you won't feel much. Now imagine the same flow rate of water near freezing or boiling (or replace the water with concentrated acid) -  a whole different set of sensations would come into play! But the flow rate, the force would be the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 13 at 12:31pm
Touch & Feel are they the same thing?

Er don't think so..

Feel I'm talking about is purely muscular, the amount of physical strength require to sheet in, feels different according to those temperature/humidity variations, so the force element of feel.

But thanks for the red herring always a good sign after another argument won.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 13 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

I don't think about things like that when I'm sailing which is probably the reason why I beat you at the fom, grf. Stop worrying about it and get sailing


You only beat me because you shouted louder..

I'm bringing a loud hailer next time...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 13 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by maxibuddah

I don't think about things like that when I'm sailing which is probably the reason why I beat you at the fom, grf. Stop worrying about it and get sailing


You only beat me because you shouted louder..

I'm bringing a loud hailer next time...


What? Only to tell you to get get out of the way before you smashed into and destroying my boat on the start line ... Anyway I had to shout cos you were so far behind you'd never hear me otherwise
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 13 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Touch & Feel are they the same thing?

Er don't think so..

Feel I'm talking about is purely muscular, the amount of physical strength require to sheet in, feels different according to those temperature/humidity variations, so the force element of feel.

But thanks for the red herring always a good sign after another argument won.

As L123456 said a few posts ago "Well you have observed the differences but rather than understand the physics you have once again invented your own branch of "physics" "
 
Yet here we go with even more disassembly.

The 'feel' you are talking about now/above is your muscular response to the Forces on the rig. Is that what you meant by 'feel' when you said "Air with moisture in it feels heavier than air without moisture in it ...Cold Air feels heavier than warm air." Because if so, it was hardly made clear.

And you don't win an argument just by saying you've won it, even on your own wiki. This particular topic has been really quite interesting with lots of illumination from virtually all quarters.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 13 at 10:32am
'Parasitic Drag'  

- okay, following the dull as ditchwater, yesterday's chip paper, that is the RS100 and it's three, four, three rig sizes, what is 'parasitic drag' on sail design.  I certainly believe that in the right wind strength, the 8.4 was quicker around a windward/leeward course than the 10.2- even when carrying a 98kg payload.

I'm a fan of some of the newer sail plans I've seen recently- the Icon and Holman's fanny magnet that is the Punk, they seem to be ultra efficient over brute sail area.  

- So are they designed to reduce PD?  
- What gives?  


Edited by yellowwelly - 04 Jun 13 at 10:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 13 at 10:47am
Parasitic Drag is a phrase we coined in windsurfing for the drag caused by the sail area over and above that which is required to propel us to optimum speed upwind, it started to become apparent in our world with the onset of floppy leech sails in the early eighties, that permitted the use of more canvass than you need upwind (but you got the PD effect) but then off wind they filled and it went away.

Maybe the term was used in dinghy sailing but tbh I wasn't around so wouldn't know, I imagine in other fields like ice yachting, having too big a sail would induce PD.

Anyway that's my understanding of the term and it's use, loosely having more sail area than you need and slowing down as a result.

Edited by iGRF - 04 Jun 13 at 10:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 13 at 10:57am
Originally posted by iGRF

Parasitic Drag is a phrase we coined in windsurfing for ... blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Aviators defined this long before iGRF re-invented physics.


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