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fab100 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Apr 13 at 11:56pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by robin34024

Now this is just getting malicious.


Not to worry, the more malicious they become, the more I know they're wriggling on that hook I'm winding in.


It's almost time for another bash at lee bow effect, they must be primed about ready for it now, anyone want to ask the question?

No, but it would be fascinating to hear your definitions of:
  1. "lee"
  2. "bow"
  3. "lee bow"
  4. "lee bow effect" 
...it could save a lot of pain later when it does come up and would establish up front that you were talking about one thing (say the taste of marmite, yuk) but everyone else was referring to something very different and rather more interesting (like say a Hooloovoo, being a hyperintelligent shade of the colour blue)
Great book for Club Sailors here
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 13 at 6:21am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by iGRF


Don't talk to me about which beach toy is the more technical.

I don't think that anyone here would consider a Laser 1 to be more technical than a state of the are 'board, but in terms of sailing technique there is no comparison.

There is no way you can compare the noble art of guiding a dinghy around the cans with all the factors that involves, with writhing about like an effete lunatic pumping a board.  I dare say a spacehopper champion could be re-trained very quickly to compete at the highest level in the latter once he'd got the knack.

 
While I can perfectly understand the temptation to bite back at some of Grumpf's remarks, you would also be shocked at the amount of technique involved in longboard racing, and the way in which elite dinghy racers struggle.
 
In one of the longboard classes I race, the team who were #2 in the doublehanded Youth Worlds (and one of them was #2 in the 18s as well) never made the top half of the nationals after a couple of years trying. A world Laser champ, a two-time Olympian, started windsurfing in the same class and after an intensive couple of years training with a 4-time windsurfing Olympian was still struggling to finish in the top half of the fleet nationally. This, by the way, is a class that prohibits wriggling a lot of the time. A two-time national champ in this class is also a Laser state champ and he believes that it's much harder to pick up windsurfing.
 
In the other longboard class I race, the former Moth worlds runner up, a chap who was 4th in the B14 worlds and a multiple national champ in one of our major dinghy classes all struggle to make the top 8 or so nationally, despite years of trying.
 
So while I would never say that windsurfers are smarter or better, I would definitely say that there's a lot of evidence to prove that top-level dinghy sailors struggle mightily to be competitive on boards.
 
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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 13 at 7:29am
Originally posted by fab100

It's this going swimming business - not only disrespectful to 2 billion years evolution and all of your forebears but slow too. 

Personally, I go for the levitation approach


maybe he should have applied all that board sailing waffle he's always pushing ? or maybe the shame was what kept him submerged....
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 13 at 10:30am
Originally posted by Chris 249


So while I would never say that windsurfers are smarter or better, I would definitely say that there's a lot of evidence to prove that top-level dinghy sailors struggle mightily to be competitive on boards. 
 
And vice versa if our experience on this thread is anything to go by!

In fact, the only ex-windsurfers I know who have had some success in dinghies were dinghy sailors before they took up boards.  I guess there must be some exceptions, there always are.

Presumably it is horses for courses; each discipline will require emphasis on different skills.

Anyway, enough reason on this thread - while we may strive for sensible discussion on other threads, this one is for exploring the many crazed regions of GRF's mind.  Let the bashing re-commence.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 13 at 11:12am
Right here we go again. Lee Bow effect, is the effect a sail off your lee bow has on your sail, by bending the air between the two sails it effects the angle of attack of the windward sail reducing its ability to point quite as high as the leeward sail forcing the windward sail to eventually drop back. It's what separates the fleet into three groups immediately after the gun.
Those that get their nose ahead of the sail upwind of them whist also making sure the sail below them is either not close enough, or too far back to effect them. This is sailboard racing 101 and the reason everyone pumps their little hearts out to get their noses clear.

The other 'lee bow effect' brought about by tide is impossible to discuss in this place because nobody understands fully the effect of tide on the true wind...
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 13 at 11:22am
This is hopeless. You are just endorsing conventional theory that we all subscribe to and struggle to cope with at every start.

Don't say you've had an epiphany and seen sense.  That would be a terrible loss to mankind.
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 13 at 11:55am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

This is hopeless. You are just endorsing conventional theory that we all subscribe to and struggle to cope with at every start.

Don't say you've had an epiphany and seen sense.  That would be a terrible loss to mankind.

I thought that, but then re-read: "nobody understands fully the effect of tide on the true wind" and my faith was restored
Great book for Club Sailors here
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 13 at 12:09pm
The 1st meaning is just the "find a clear lane" we teach from about age 8 upwards. The 2nd meanng is something very specific, and not just general tidal stuff, and breaks the laws of physics. Dosn'tmean that the actality works, just that the theory is wrong.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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L123456 View Drop Down
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Posts: 500 		Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 13 at 12:47pm
I fear we are getting to the root of his problems in that he has redefined all the terms to mean something different in his world. Perhaps he overhead the bigger boys at the bar chatting and only got half the conversation.

I grant you some of them are perhaps confusing, but the (alleged) lee bow effect is very different to being lee bowed off the start line ...

Perhaps it would be helpful to develop a glossary of terms for newbies?


Edited by L123456 - 03 Apr 13 at 12:48pm
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 13 at 12:50pm
That's true.   All is not lost then.
Wilsonian SC
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