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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wiki Sail by GRF
    Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 12:57pm
Okay - let's start by confirming I was interested in planing, now if you've sailed boards for a while you realise there's early planing when the board begins to bite on the fin and there's the locked down apparent wind planing. I'm referring to the former and without a GPS I can only go on gut, and say sailing (bogging) with the tide was 'as quick' as the early planing into it. But this about planing- when windsurfing is fun, irrespective of speed itself.

Now please look at the Google Maps, you'll see Bray Hill creating the most almighty of wind shadows on an easterly. And weird bends, combined with eddys from the bay itself, there's a whole raft of technical attributes to keep you amused some more...

Either way, when i was off the plane, stuffing into the tide, 'sailing depressed' (search string that with 'Guy Cribb' for a definition, but eq. to pinching in a laser) meant I was able to get back ashore without too much drama- not bad for a mediocre windsurfer sailing a board with really not enough volume for the gusty on/off conditions).

Weird huh?

Edited by pondmonkey - 31 Mar 13 at 1:01pm
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 1:13pm
I'm watching the kities on the lee shore right now from our hotel balcony; planing into the tide going nowhere relative to the land behind them. As soon as they turn to sail into shore, with the tide, lots are dropping off and falling in... tidal effect or are they just 'gheys on trays'?
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 2:45pm
As above, James, as above
Great book for Club Sailors here
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 5:07pm
I bet those kiters will be really wondering about the forward vector of the apparent wind - not.

Or as they squat in the tidal ebb with the true wind depowered despite them sining their kites (which develops apparent wind at the kite)they're still unable to get going,

But its all because the apparent wind has shifted forward, oh really? MHow do we get some of that then.

Edited by iGRF - 31 Mar 13 at 5:22pm
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2547 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 7:39pm
I suspect old Grf has some experience of the impact of tide on sailing craft but little understanding of the terms and definitions used and the maths that underpin those terms. So rather than learn he has created his own set of definitions which are then used incorrectly making his explanations complete gobbledygook. 

That compounded by his own non mathematical self derived explanations for simple vector mathematics leads to some amusing explanations and the invention of perpetual motion. His Nobel prize must be a shoe in soon. 

If only he would read mark rushall's excellent book and accept it as correct and use those terms. 
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 8:26pm
Originally posted by 2547

If only he would read mark rushall's excellent book and accept it as correct and use those terms. 

There, you've mentioned the 'b' word on this thread.  You must know full well that Grumph has already decreed that books contain nothing but drivel compared to his own intuition. You'll be for it now.
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 8:55pm
Apart from his own of course....

let's go windsurfing by Graeme Fuller
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scotsfinn View Drop Down
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Posts: 284 		Post Options Post Options   Quote scotsfinn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 9:09pm
Good one James ...looks like the marine eqivalent of Fly Fishing by JR Hartley ..... Times have moved on it seems
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

Apart from his own of course....

let's go windsurfing by Graeme Fuller

Looks like good proofing - with "Graham" on the cover and "Graeme" in the listings
Great book for Club Sailors here
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 9:30pm
I wouldn't mind, if the terms and the maths were true, but patently they are not.

You are reeling off explanations that are just plain wrong, you believe them because they are couched in mathematical description derived by I don't know who, but whoever it is doesn't sail much in tide. That explanation of the apparent wind vector moving forward or aft is not correct, if it were, the kiters could ride with the tide, they can't..

The truth is in fluid dynamics, both air and water are fluids, acting on foils. Trying to suggest that what is happening is some mystical effect of the apparent wind is confusing. You don't even understand it or you would be able to explain better, rather than trying to suggest my explanation is wrong, look to your own.

If you don't get it straight in your head, how the hell are you going to deal with a wind bend that after lunch becomes a progressive tidal bend, how do you map a course out in your head? I'd love mark rushall to explain it, I shall go and have a look, but i bet it's full of inaccuracy and confusion.

Nothing any of you have written answers Jimbo's scenario, Bootscooter was more on the point.




Edited by iGRF - 31 Mar 13 at 9:31pm
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