RS Square Running System

I'm contemplating a RS200. I've got most of the Pre Purchase questions sorted except for the "RS Square Running System"

Could someone explain what it is, how it works and is it worth the extra faffing. I assume there's an extra pole involved but I could be wrong, I also assume there's some goosewinging involved but again I could be wrong. I've seen a few 200s but can't recall seeing such a thing, perhaps no one bothers. I shall be using the boat mainly for racing but I do spend some time cruising around Chichester harbour.....as much detail as you can give would be helpful 

Edited by transient - 19 Mar 13 at 1:55pm

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transient Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715	Post Options Post Reply Quote transient Report Post Quote Reply Topic: RS Square Running System Posted: 19 Mar 13 at 1:50pm
	I'm contemplating a RS200. I've got most of the Pre Purchase questions sorted except for the "RS Square Running System" Could someone explain what it is, how it works and is it worth the extra faffing. I assume there's an extra pole involved but I could be wrong, I also assume there's some goosewinging involved but again I could be wrong. I've seen a few 200s but can't recall seeing such a thing, perhaps no one bothers. I shall be using the boat mainly for racing but I do spend some time cruising around Chichester harbour.....as much detail as you can give would be helpful Edited by transient - 19 Mar 13 at 1:55pm

AlexM Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 10 Jan 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 857	Post Options Post Reply Quote AlexM Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Mar 13 at 1:56pm
	Never heard of it.. but a bit of googling http://www.dovestonesc.org.uk/rs200.html “BUT WAIT”, I hear you say, “aren’t asymmetrics a pain on a run”…YES they are, but this is the genius of it all. It has something called SRS (Square Running System), with a tweaker here and a check line there, a pole out here and a crew sat there…the kite is “Goose winged” and ready to sail downwind…GENIUS!!! On the circuit, however, the SRS is not allowed. This is not a bad thing though. Against other asymmetrics the SRS would make racing boring. The nature of the spinnaker means that the racing downwind is as tactical and a hell of a lot more fun than upwind

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Mar 13 at 2:00pm
	It was on the boat when it first came out, but was scrapped, I believe. This was for one of 2 reasons, depending upon who you speak to. Reason one, it was almost always faster to goosewing down to the lee mark, but this meant there were no downwind tacticsin terms of gybing angles, vmg and the like, so goosewinging the kite was banned. Reason 2 was that if you have boats reacing into the lee mark from port and stb coupled with boats running directly there, there was too much chaos and too many places to try and look for approaching boats. I remember using the square running system when it came out (there was a block higher on the mast to pull the kite to so you could leave the bowsprit in and so reach to goosewing) and for handicap racing on a lake it was a fantastic thing. Edited by Rupert - 19 Mar 13 at 2:01pm
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transient Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715	Post Options Post Reply Quote transient Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Mar 13 at 2:18pm
	Thanks for the link Alex, I did google but didn't persist long enough (clearly) "Reason 2 was that if you have boats reacing into the lee mark from port and stb coupled with boats running directly there, there was too much chaos and too many places to try and look for approaching boats." I can imagine Looking through the class rules: 1.3.27 On masts supplied with a plastic grommet where the tweaker line exits, the grommet may be replaced with a sheave box. The hole cut in the mast to install the sheave box shall incorporate the original hole for the plastic grommet, and the exit point from the sheave box shall be within 10mm of the exit point of the plastic grommet. The presence of the tweaker line in the mast is optional. If the tweaker line is removed from the mast, the spinnaker halyard shall enter the mast through the lower (tweaker line) sheave box. If the tweaker line is present in the mast, it shall exit the mast at the lower (tweaker line) sheave box and the spinnaker halyard shall run from the head of the spinnaker through a block or ring attached to the end of the tweaker line, before entering the mast at the upper (spinnaker halyard) sheave box. All RS200s shall be capable of deploying the "Square Running System" (SRS) by simply installing a tweaker line and spinnaker halyard as described above, and by carrying/using a booming-out pole (as described in 1.3.23 above). Under no circumstances may the systems internal to the bowsprit be modified. .......Is it not allowed on the circuit? I'ts probably not as complicated as it sounds but I guess what I really need is a blow by blow description of how it's rigged/used.

hum3 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 23 Jun 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 247	Post Options Post Reply Quote hum3 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Mar 13 at 2:49pm
	Hi transient The SRS never really took off, and it's definitely not allowed at circuit events. I've been in and out of the class for 10 years, and never even seen it used for fun. The reason for the rule change above was to allow the rigging of the boats without the SRS, as it was redundant. It simplified the system and removed something which could go wrong. If you're really keen to give it a go, I'd suggest you get in touch with LDC.

transient Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715	Post Options Post Reply Quote transient Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Mar 13 at 2:52pm
	Thanks Hum. ....as I suspected.

Ruscoe Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ruscoe Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Mar 13 at 4:07pm
	My 200 came with the whisker pole and i can confirm in light winds it is quicker to goose wing the kite. But in my opinion the boat is better without it!


GybeFunny Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 27 Oct 09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 403	Post Options Post Reply Quote GybeFunny Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 20 Mar 13 at 11:22am
	I have used it and IMHO it is a waste of time. I thought it would help me to sail the RS200 to its PY on my small sausage shaped puddle but there was much more faff involved in deploying it that any gains due to being able to sail dead downwind were lost in the hoist/drop/gybe. You will find once you get good at sailing the boat that you will be able to 'soak' very low with the assymetric (by healing the boat to windward) that you are almost dead downwind anyway. Basically the boat is setup so that the spinnaker hoists as a standard assym by default, but by locking off the rope that goes up the pole in a notch near the halyard cleat you can ensure that the pole does not go out and instead you can hoist the spinnaker higher up the mast and then you goose-wing the spinnaker using the pole (that is stored along the boom). Sounds very simple but there is lots to go wrong. There is lots of extra gubbins in the pole and mast to enable it and the rule change allowed people to remove that extra complexity. Also at most circuit events for a while at least one boat snapped its tweaker line (the line which allows you to hoist the kite to a point further up the mast when using SRS) and ended up not able to use its kite so people wanted rid of these extra possible failure points. In my opinion you are better off without it. I never did manage to sail it to PY on my puddle so I bought a Scorpion which has a symetric spinnaker and that is much better suited!

transient Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715	Post Options Post Reply Quote transient Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 20 Mar 13 at 2:19pm
	That all seems pretty conclusive then Gybefunny: I did consider a Scorp myself, sweet boats. We are going for a 200 though, 3 open events per year within a 30 mile radius of where we are, sick to death of the handicap issues........A big consideration when you don't want to spend the rest of your life driving (or arguing ) Edited by transient - 20 Mar 13 at 7:40pm

kingdacks Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 04 Oct 11 Location: Poole Online Status: Offline Posts: 148	Post Options Post Reply Quote kingdacks Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 20 Mar 13 at 4:37pm
	Rs200 is brilliant, the best circuit in the UK :D