Back to Basics - Tacking.

   As you have been made very aware over the course of my ramblings, never having had any formal 'how it is supposed to be done' training, I'm beginning to wonder if there is more I should be doing with this tacking business, so, following a link from the hints and tips bit of a Dutch EPS site, I pitched up on the Rooster hints and tips where the following is written..
The key to the efficiency of the tack is in the first stage. 

The luff to head to wind.
This part of the tack should not be a push with the rudder. In fact it could be said that the rudder plays no part in the tack at all, but it is probably used to control the rate of turn rather than induce the turn. 
It can probably be gained the most in this part of the tack. If the boat is at maximum speed prior to the tack, the feel on the rudder should be neutral.

Now to begin our tack, we must not repeat not push the rudder!!!!! So how do we get the boat to begin the tack? Simply over trim the main sheet slightly, under sheet the jib slightly, and if needed, a tiny, repeat tiny bit of leeward heel. The center of effort of the sails has moved back behind the hulls pivot point and the boat now will naturally wants to begin to luff to windward. As the boat progressively sails closer and closer to the wind, there are more things to consider:
If the helm and crew are not conscious of the balance of the boat, it will begin to heel to windward very soon, which if not corrected, will be trying to send the boat back away from the wind. This would induce the use of more rudder to keep the turn going, due to the natural shape of the boat trying to turn the boat away from the wind.
The problem obviously is it's written for a boat with two sails and mine only has the one, so my question is a simple how do you get the boat to enter a tack without moving that wiggle thing and more important to my case down the lake, speed out of the tack is where I get annihilated every time by my Laser driven nemesis.

You don't have to tell me I'm doing it wrong, I'm clear on that, just talk me through how you do it once more, as if you would a retarded child please, no big words or silly terminology..

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G.R.F. Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028	Post Options Post Reply Quote G.R.F. Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Back to Basics - Tacking. Posted: 14 Mar 13 at 12:30pm
	As you have been made very aware over the course of my ramblings, never having had any formal 'how it is supposed to be done' training, I'm beginning to wonder if there is more I should be doing with this tacking business, so, following a link from the hints and tips bit of a Dutch EPS site, I pitched up on the Rooster hints and tips where the following is written.. The key to the efficiency of the tack is in the first stage. The luff to head to wind. This part of the tack should not be a push with the rudder. In fact it could be said that the rudder plays no part in the tack at all, but it is probably used to control the rate of turn rather than induce the turn. It can probably be gained the most in this part of the tack. If the boat is at maximum speed prior to the tack, the feel on the rudder should be neutral. Now to begin our tack, we must not repeat not push the rudder!!!!! So how do we get the boat to begin the tack? Simply over trim the main sheet slightly, under sheet the jib slightly, and if needed, a tiny, repeat tiny bit of leeward heel. The center of effort of the sails has moved back behind the hulls pivot point and the boat now will naturally wants to begin to luff to windward. As the boat progressively sails closer and closer to the wind, there are more things to consider: If the helm and crew are not conscious of the balance of the boat, it will begin to heel to windward very soon, which if not corrected, will be trying to send the boat back away from the wind. This would induce the use of more rudder to keep the turn going, due to the natural shape of the boat trying to turn the boat away from the wind. The problem obviously is it's written for a boat with two sails and mine only has the one, so my question is a simple how do you get the boat to enter a tack without moving that wiggle thing and more important to my case down the lake, speed out of the tack is where I get annihilated every time by my Laser driven nemesis. You don't have to tell me I'm doing it wrong, I'm clear on that, just talk me through how you do it once more, as if you would a retarded child please, no big words or silly terminology..
	https://www.ease-distribution.com/

Fraggle Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 28 Feb 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 220	Post Options Post Reply Quote Fraggle Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 13 at 12:35pm
	I'm sure Jon won't mind me linking to his youtube video on tacking http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR6ec_nPWbw. Key is using bodyweight/trim to initiate the turn, not the rudder. Go and practice rudderless tacking to get a really good idea of what you need to do/not do.

Daniel Holman Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 17 Nov 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 997	Post Options Post Reply Quote Daniel Holman Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 13 at 12:42pm
	a bit of leeward heel should be all you need on flat water. You'll need to push it away if its wavy or choppy as you won't glide upwind through the "no go zone" If you are struggling out of tacks there may be several reasons. 1. Roll - big hike towards you just before you cross the boat so that you can roll it flat on the new tack 2. Heading on new tack - if you are using lots of rolla nd its light, you can exit on close hauled and get away with it, if its windy and/or no roll, you'll need to be anything from 10 to 25ish degrees free of close hauled, with an appropriate amount of sheet eased to enable the boat to accelerate without working the foils too hard. If you use a big roll and its light, even if you've settled on a close hauled course you'll need to ease a decent amount of sheet before the roll flat, only pulling it in at the end of the roll. Use your telltales! The laser 1 is a good boat for roll tacking, as good as anything this side of a firefly. Suspect the EPS, as many more modern boats may not lend itself so well to this subtle art.

transient Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715	Post Options Post Reply Quote transient Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 13 at 12:55pm
	....bearing in mind where you are, try and do it on top of a wave.

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 13 at 12:59pm
	This business of not using the rudder to tack is not the same as not pushing the tiller away. If you think about it, if the boat is turning but the rudder straight, it is effectively acting as the very break you are trying to avoid by pushing it across too early, and is trying to force the boat back onto a straight line. The Rooster video (I think) also shows how flinging your weight to windward works like an iceskater inducing spin. I'd have to watch it again to get all the reasons again, but basically you are moving closer to the centre of the circle, and the boat pivots round you. I grew up roll tacking Fireflies, and in comparison the eps lacks rocker and has wings to slap the water, but they will still roll quite nicely once you have a bit of way on. The sheeting in only at the end of the roll flat is one that has an interesting reason - effectively, the wind is coming as a beam reach as you pull the boat flat, so you need to be sheeted out a little to get the forward drive.
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

G.R.F. Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028	Post Options Post Reply Quote G.R.F. Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 13 at 2:30pm
	Difficult to sheet in when you're already sheeted in as far as it will go, centrelined, this could be part of the problem, I do like to sail very high and often take big chunks out of the fleet because they sail what is to my mind to free, but going into a tack I'm obviously a bit slow and if I'm already sheeted in and on the rail so to speak, what is it I have to do, sheet out and let the boat heal to weather, will that be enough to carry it through without the rudder, I can see I might have to go and have a sail without actually racing, that'll be tedious..
	https://www.ease-distribution.com/

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 13 at 2:42pm
	Yes, you have to sheet out before the tack - how much depends on the weather and the boat, but is impossible to describe, anyway. At least by me. Yup, you have to get out there and play. Can be more fun than racing.
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

robin34024 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 03 Jan 12 Location: Lincoln Online Status: Offline Posts: 116	Post Options Post Reply Quote robin34024 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 13 at 3:48pm
	in the toppers, i was taught to heel the boat away gently about 10 degrees depending on the wind strength, and let the rudder follow, and keep your grip light. then, as soon as the front edge of the sail backs even a little bit, hold the rudder in place, and heel the boat towards you hard, as crossing sides. centralize when you're pointing in the right direction, then gently ease the boat flat, rather than just slamming it flat.

Neptune Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jun 09 Location: Berkshire United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1314	Post Options Post Reply Quote Neptune Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 13 at 4:14pm
	or in a musto/ 600 et all, keep it flat into the tack, heel it and you'll slow down too much and stall coming out the tack, so stay on the wire for as long as possible before you unhook then bound with effortless grace to the other side
	Musto Skiff and Solo sailor

Do Different Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312	Post Options Post Reply Quote Do Different Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 13 at 4:20pm
	I had a very interesting session tagging on the back of some junior coaching in my Contender. Light to medium winds he had us tacking and gybing using only heel to induce the turns. (GRF I didn't think many mono sail boats went upwind too well fully centrelined, anyway be that as it may) We were simply dropping the tiller extension, sheeting a little harder and leaning in a little to induce the turn, with the rudder free to do it's own thing it demonstrated perfectly the path of least resistance as it followed the boat through the turn. Not quite so easy but gybing was induced in a similar fashion, only this time easing the sheet and hiking harder for heel to windward and bear away into a gybe. The coach had us doing these exercises in a very tight area and in quick time.