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Steve411 View Drop Down
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Posts: 705 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Foil lift / tracking
    Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 10:31am
I think 6 knots may be a bit on the high side, perhaps 5? Fully powered up and hiked I get 6 to 6.5 knots upwind in the 300 (according to the GPS). However, this speed doesn't increase much as the wind increases, though possibly does a bit in a Solo??
 
Windward heel can be devastating upwind in a 300 as maxi says.
Steve B
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 10:38am
Steve - remember that winters at BCYC when it was just you and me doing it?  Good days!
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 10:42am
oi oi... no 300 love-in thanks Matt... salt into the wounds n' all that.

OKay so six knots optimistic... I'll have to take a GPS out a recalibrate my perceptions. Of course I will retire from any club results I achieve as I will be technically out of class by carrying it ;-)
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Posts: 552 		Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 11:21am
A Solo for all its charms cannot plane upwind. To achieve a displacement sailing speed of 6 knots it would need to have a waterline length of at least 20 feet. In reality its maximum displacement speed is going to be in the region of 4.5 knots.
Best wishes from deep in the woods

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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 11:34am
Originally posted by SoggyBadger

A Solo for all its charms cannot plane upwind. To achieve a displacement sailing speed of 6 knots it would need to have a waterline length of at least 20 feet. In reality its maximum displacement speed is going to be in the region of 4.5 knots.

thanks... as I said it was guess, what I'm interested in doing is replicating the feeling of being sucked to windward.... there's a friday afternoon gag for Mr Holman there too, oops, and another one.
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

oi oi... no 300 love-in thanks Matt... salt into the wounds n' all that.

OKay so six knots optimistic... I'll have to take a GPS out a recalibrate my perceptions. Of course I will retire from any club results I achieve as I will be technically out of class by carrying it ;-)


Just bear off to 85 deg TWA and you might coax 6 knots out whilsts still technically achieving some upwind progress.
I would bet that you like to "reach around"
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

According the Cockerell bloke its to so with heeling slightly to windward while pointing about right and at a certain boat speed with a certain foil and Hull shape then the boat will track to windward. I did it once in a laser. Unfortunately I didn't realise that was what did it so didn't try again.

I believe the theory is more to do with the shape of the hull through the water but the foil is still important. When heeling to windward the centreline of the boat is the leeward edge baking contact with the water and is straight. The windward side is curved. This produces a flow similar to an aeroplane wing causing lift to the windward side. However it only seems to work with certain foil/Hull shape combinations.


Steve is a good orator but questionable physicist/engineer.
By definition a boat without a gybing board or trim tab must make leeway in order to generate sideforce to counter righting moment.
There are a lot of boats for which ww heel is good in the right circumstances, in a few ways enhancing the efficiency of the foils. This means that the boat may achieve the same sideforce (countering the same righting moment) at a slightly lower leeway angle, meaning less induced drag and seeming to climb up on other boats.

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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

 
I would bet that you like to "reach around"

in a pink solo, it would be rude not to... 'god damn common courtesy' according to my drill sergeant.  
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Steve - remember that winters at BCYC when it was just you and me doing it?  Good days!

??????
Cue lilting guitar music...
Summer turned to autumn, ah thought ah'd never see him agin. Then one day I was stroking the steer in the yard an there he was, sunlight glinting on his mus - tache. Ah grabbed him by the waistcoat an we musta rolled around in the mud for good 2 hours.
Ah gripped him tight to me an said to him: "Don't you ever leave me boy!"
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Steve411 View Drop Down
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Posts: 705 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Originally posted by sargesail

Steve - remember that winters at BCYC when it was just you and me doing it?  Good days!

??????
Cue lilting guitar music...
Summer turned to autumn, ah thought ah'd never see him agin. Then one day I was stroking the steer in the yard an there he was, sunlight glinting on his mus - tache. Ah grabbed him by the waistcoat an we musta rolled around in the mud for good 2 hours.
Ah gripped him tight to me an said to him: "Don't you ever leave me boy!"
 
You were there? Big smile
Steve B
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