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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: 420 winged rudder
    Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 7:33pm
Yep, I'm a club rules advisor, as are 1/2 a dozen or so others at Whitefriars. However, this doesn't mean I'd be the slightest bit qualified to drive around in a powerboat deciding on the spot who was right or wrong. It is a role to allow people to discuss with a neutral advisor what has gone on on the water, and who might have been right or wrong.

I think I need a refresher anyway, due to time having passed and the rules having recently changed. I've maybe given advice twice in 3 years.
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Yep, I'm a club rules advisor, as are 1/2 a dozen or so others at Whitefriars. However, this doesn't mean I'd be the slightest bit qualified to drive around in a powerboat deciding on the spot who was right or wrong. It is a role to allow people to discuss with a neutral advisor what has gone on on the water, and who might have been right or wrong.

I think I need a refresher anyway, due to time having passed and the rules having recently changed. I've maybe given advice twice in 3 years.

Like the scheme, respect those who volunteer, but unconvinced, having discussed rules with a few thus qualified, that the training delivers what it should.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by radixon

At the BM last weekend two 420s launched before us, each had a winged rudder that look like they had added fibreglass wings to the side, as they were different sizes and added after I take it this is a class mod but what advantage does this have? They were fit half way down, so not at the bottom like the moth.


I wonder if I read stuff the same way some of you lot do, getting your knickers all in a twist, it's an honest post, a simple question, he's just asking what the mod does, so whoever the offenders are, who cares, there wasn't even any accusation to have the entire bloody class association here blubbering. Maybe they weren't 420's maybe it's some other old tub that should have been put out to grass eons ago, no need to go getting all shouty at the fella and saying he didn't see something he most clearly did..

Where are the 29er class association by the way, didn't they clobber someone then rock on saying nothing? Should we have their class secretary to the forum?

Edited by iGRF - 22 Jan 13 at 7:58pm
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 8:33pm
Never underestimated the power of a parent when their kid is (wrongly) accused of ill-doing...

The fact is, even if they had sported an experimental wing rudder- So f**king What? It's a handicap event. It means absolutely nothing other than a bit of a laugh... Or it should, if there were any common sense left in the sport.
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themeaningoflife View Drop Down
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Posts: 212 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by iGRF

 Where are the 29er class association by the way, didn't they clobber someone then rock on saying nothing? Should we have their class secretary to the forum?

I'm not sure many 29er sailors read this forum, but as one, and previously vaguely related to the committee's inner workings, I would say that that is not a matter to be taken up with the class but with the sailors themselves. This incident is definitely not indicative of general rule observance within the fleet, and so I would suggest that most likely it was an honest mistake in the pressure of a race.

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andymck View Drop Down
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Posts: 397 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 13 at 9:51pm
I think it has been established this was probably a case of mistaken boat identity. What colour were the boats. 
To elude to the original question about would they improve performance of a 420. On the N12 it has made a huge difference to performance on boats designed around a winged rudder. The sail juice handicap has been dropped by about 30 points since they were introduced. Some difference has been observed on retro fit boats too.
They seem to make a difference as soon as the boat is moving. They do not work in the same way as the Moth or I14 foils. We carry them higher, and in the stern wave which has been modified on boats like the DCB to project more upwards at the foils. You can see the difference in stern wave by adjusting the angle of attack. As a result the rig has been moved aft, and we sit further back. 
I wonder if what was seen were the N12's they now have a similar start time to the 420's.

Andy


Edited by andymck - 23 Jan 13 at 9:53pm
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r2d2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 350 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 13 at 9:00am
thank god some sanity is returning instead of the outrage and pseudo-official bluster we have had in this thread so far

do such wings have a lifting effect or do they just stop air travelling down the rudder?
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robin34024 View Drop Down
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Posts: 116 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 13 at 11:56am
the ones on the twelves have quite a large lifting effect.
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tick View Drop Down
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Posts: 223 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 13 at 12:06pm
I believe that DCB has quite a lot of rocker which sweeps the stern wave up and off the transom. Does that mean that a boat of lesser performance but similar characteristics would also benefit? How about a "T" foil Wayfarer?
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 13 at 12:08pm
I think I'll enter the BM in a T foil Firefly next year. No one will mind...
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