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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: 420 winged rudder
    Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 5:05pm
Hi Mike,

I think Richard stated he noticed when the boats were ashore, rigging up- any photos of the rudder before it is under the water?
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gbr1360 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 5:21pm
Fascinating to see where this forum thread has lead, with plenty of perfectly valid points being made and some wothwhile discussion. However, in my capacity as Sailing Sec of the GBR 420 Class Association, and having been at the event itself, I see a need to respond regarding the original alleged "infringement".
 
There were six 420s at the event, mostly squad level boats with highly experienced International level sailors. Any such "wings" would not be class legal. We know who each of the sailors were and have spoken with them and can confirm that no 420 was using such a rudder. I am very sure that if any 420 had been suspected of anything untoward, one of their fellow 420 sailors would have had them in the protest room faster than you can say "Jason Belben"  (sorry Jason)
 
It's unfortunate that sometimes these things can get out of hand - the backlash from this thread has already cased a fair bit of angst for the sailors and one or two odd phone calls - but I am sure that the original poster didn't intend that and it's an honest post of what someone thought they saw.
 
As an organiser of many National level events I echo the earlier thoughts that rule observance is important - to deliberately flout them is unfair not just to other competitors but also to race organisators and helpers - many of whom are volunteers. Of course there are times and events when some experimentation is appropriate, so I would say if in doubt, ask.
 
So either they weren't 420s, or it was something else mistaken for wings (maybe one of the new micro outboard motors.....).
 
Happy Sailing.
 
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 5:36pm
Surely nobody is going to mistake a rudder with a step in its profile above the waterline for a winged rudder?
Are we talking 6 inch wings? a two foot T-foil? or a little fence?
Rudders with actual wings are not that common, I'm surprised more people did not notice them.
Also any meaningful winged rudder is going want a stock that controls the angle of attack properly, and gudgeons etc that resist some serious vertical force?

Maybe it was some gismo for protecting the edges while rigging or trailing?
Maybe it was still in the bag with the flaps of the back sticking out sideways?

Things is, if I saw a winged rudder on a boat (other than a 14 etc), I would probably make time to have a semi-proper look at it, or at least remark on it to the owner.
(possibly along the lines of 'not much weed in January, please come back in the summer!')
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 5:36pm
gbr1360,

Neither yourself or your young sailors should take any notice of anything written in this forum.
Best wishes from deep in the woods

SB

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radixon View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by gbr1360

Fascinating to see where this forum thread has lead, with plenty of perfectly valid points being made and some wothwhile discussion. However, in my capacity as Sailing Sec of the GBR 420 Class Association, and having been at the event itself, I see a need to respond regarding the original alleged "infringement".
 

There were six 420s at the event, mostly squad level boats with highly experienced International level sailors. Any such "wings" would not be class legal. We know who each of the sailors were and have spoken with them and can confirm that no 420 was using such a rudder. I am very sure that if any 420 had been suspected of anything untoward, one of their fellow 420 sailors would have had them in the protest room faster than you can say "Jason Belben"  (sorry Jason)

 

It's unfortunate that sometimes these things can get out of hand - the backlash from this thread has already cased a fair bit of angst for the sailors and one or two odd phone calls - but I am sure that the original poster didn't intend that and it's an honest post of what someone thought they saw.

 

As an organiser of many National level events I echo the earlier thoughts that rule observance is important - to deliberately flout them is unfair not just to other competitors but also to race organisators and helpers - many of whom are volunteers. Of course there are times and events when some experimentation is appropriate, so I would say if in doubt, ask.

 

So either they weren't 420s, or it was something else mistaken for wings (maybe one of the new micro outboard motors.....).

 

Happy Sailing.

 


I'm off to Specsavers.
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 5:42pm
I hear there's an opening for a Weapons of Mass Destruction Investigator in Tony Blair's private office Richard...
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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 5:48pm
I've long since been treating this as a hypothetical discussion...
Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch"
Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air"
Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile"
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blueboy View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Not quite, Division 1 eventually was regained to become the 'raceboard' class .


That sure ain't the experience I saw in the racing scene around Hayling at the time - hardly a backwater. Once the funboards appeared, flat boards seemed laughable. Nobody wanted to be seen on one. Maybe the baby was thrown out with the bathwater but we are talking about what was a fashion-driven sport in that period. Blaming the process on dinghy sailors is a reconstruction of history that bears no resemblance to what I saw around me.


Edited by blueboy - 22 Jan 13 at 6:01pm
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JohnW View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by gbr1360

...
So either they weren't 420s, or it was something else mistaken for wings (maybe one of the new micro outboard motors.....).



Now, surely micro outboard motors are not class legal in 420s?


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winging it View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by timeintheboat



A start, I believe,  would be for the RYA to easier through some grass roots funding to enable clubs to have their own rules "champions". It is the rules that define how we play our sport so they should be seen as important at club level.

I'm not advocating more protests, I'm advocating more education.


This already happens.  Any club can contact their Regional Rules Adviser who will come and run a day course for people to become a 'Club Rules Adviser'.  These people are then equipped to carry out arbitration hearings if the club has signed up to the scheme, or chair a protest if push has come to shove.  We're lucky here at Hunts to have Trevor Lewis as our Regional Rules Adviser and he is coming here next month to run the course for us (at minimal cost) and for members of neighbouring clubs.
the same, but different...

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