New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: 420 winged rudder
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Topic Closed420 winged rudder

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1011121314 23>
Author
timeintheboat View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 01 Feb 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 615
Direct Link To This Post Topic: 420 winged rudder
    Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 2:08pm
Some of the basic rules of sailing are straightforward: port/starboard, hitting a mark, some class rules. After that it all gets more open to interpretation and can get devilishly complicated couched in its own legalese.

It can be difficult enough sometimes shuffling plastic boats around (as the rules posts on this forum attest), let alone trying to interpret stuff in a crowd of boats and/or spray.

I wonder how many of us would be confident in our knowledge of the rules to act as an on the water umpire even at club level? I for one would not.

I'm not sure what the the answer is to self-policing (is there one?) but somewhere a means to educate beyond the basic rules must come in there - and that could include a simplification of some the rules. It would be interesting to get the views of some of the rules Gurus on here (Gordon, Brass etc) of the current state of fitness for purpose of our rules.

A start, I believe,  would be for the RYA to easier through some grass roots funding to enable clubs to have their own rules "champions". It is the rules that define how we play our sport so they should be seen as important at club level.

I'm not advocating more protests, I'm advocating more education.
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
Back to Top
pondmonkey View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2202
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by mikeriley1960

 Finally – no you will not see winged rudders in the future because you did not see them in the first place!

could the OP be referring to this rudder blade?



Back to Top
r2d2 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 29 Sep 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 350
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 2:34pm
you will not may see winged rudders in the future because, but you did not see them in the first place at the BM!

FTFY
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 2:54pm
Bearing in mind the rest of the rules around rudders in 420s, I reckon the chances of them allowing foils on the rudders in the forseeable future are as near zero as makes no odds. So the original post was correct.

Personally I find the FTFY thing bloody irritating.

Edited by JimC - 22 Jan 13 at 2:56pm
Back to Top
blueboy View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 27 Aug 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 512
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by iGRF

It was a bunch of dinghy types that ruined our (windsurfings) 1st attempt at a cheap production class, Division 1 as it was then called the idea being to stabilise around flat boards a mast limited to 460 and 6.0mtr sails, so what happened a couple of mothies showed up with high roach sails and cleaned up.
Technically they didn't break the rules ( a loose 2/3rds base times height triangulation was being used to measure the sails and lighter boards had to carry weight) the class died.



Oh come on. Division 1 died because everyone started sailing funboards and flat boards were instantly old hat.
Back to Top
r2d2 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 29 Sep 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 350
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 3:30pm
the fix was not meant to irritate you JimC.  It was trying to clarify and make sense of what was otherwise a fairly nonsensical (but possibly important) post
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 3:44pm
Not quite, Division 1 eventually was regained to become the 'raceboard' class and as Mike said earlier, there followed a Golden Period where one could turn up, one board one rig, (it was 7.5) what happened next, that same bunch (local sailmakers eager to create a local direct market) drove the unlimited class, so 10sq mtr Demon and Reflex if you happened to be around the Grafham area appeared and rigs up to 12 sq mtrs appeared.

But it was this dinghy style direct marketing that did for us (the racing types)in the end, all the time the market was structured and the sales were put through dealers, ( the Div 1 production class, and then Raceboard being largely on production stuff) with controlled pricing and margins it worked OK and folk external to the scene continued to promote the idea of racing.

But once racing just turned inwards and like the dinghy industry, just fed upon itself, boards were sold direct to each other, sails were built and some got direct deals and others didn't so new folk felt instantly prejudiced against so turned away and frankly the planing side of the sport was always more attractive and more easily marketed.

My world was pushing One design, kind of SMOD style you call it except we did keep things alive by changing the set up periodically until we fell into the arms of ISAF and became Olympic, and instead of the customary after party squads of orange juice drinking youfs were shepherded off home and then off to obscurity, you can't sell that to anyone and so that died away.
Back to Top
tgruitt View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2479
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by mikeriley1960

I was launching to the left of the green container and the 420's rigged up in front of us and launched before us. Please note I didnt have my camera on me so was unable to take a picture.

As per my original post, the question was purely based on what advantage these have, not what has since come about on here regarding class rules etc. It was more an observation and question than an infringement.

It would be interesting to see if at another event, the rudders reappear.

You have clearly identified these boats (I know who they are) and I think you will find you were mistaken.

Unfortunately your mistake has caused a lot of concern on this web forum and for those 420 sailors at this event, who happen to be very committed and good young sailors. As I stated in my first reply, if you have a question ask the boat. 

To clarify a winged rudder is illegal.  I understand a committee member will post an official reply.

Finally – no you will not see winged rudders in the future because you did not see them in the first place!

 

 


So what boats were these winged rudders on then?

Maybe you saw this??


Image from Pinnell & Bax Ltd


Edited by tgruitt - 22 Jan 13 at 4:13pm
Needs to sail more...
Back to Top
mikeriley1960 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 Jan 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 4:58pm
Back to Top
mikeriley1960 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 Jan 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 13 at 5:05pm
opps posted the pic
The head of the foil sits in the rudder stock.  The head is flat and as the blade is profiled, this produces a sharp edge which does not go in the water this could have been what was seen as the rudders would have been pinned up in the boat park.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1011121314 23>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy