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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: 420 winged rudder
    Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 8:36pm
However, these spats over class rules are not new [/quote]
 
I don't remember any before Sailjuice.
 
In fact the winter events used to be a hotbed of testing new kit out before the new season. New sails, differant shape foils, differant masts etc etc.
 
Do we really think that all these were measured before use?
 
The Merlin sails tried out a couple of years ago would not even have been blinked at as recently as five years ago. Putting a 400 kite on a Bosun is of course a differant matter, but trying a new cloth or new rudder shape? really??
 
It's all gone too far, the fun element has gone awol and previously enjoyable events are being taken far too seriously.
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 9:10pm
No it was always cheating and the SJ just exposed it.

New is fine....outside Class Rules is not.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

...not be really blatant cheating?

Really blatant cheating deserving of an international ban might be something like getting a custom rig made up that's 10% oversize, forging RS stickers and labels to go on it, and then saying at the protest hearing "well it must have come from RS oversize like that".
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Posts: 929 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by sargesail

No it was always cheating and the SJ just exposed it.
 
No, Sailjuice made people on the internet care about it. I have yet to see a valid complaint from someone who actually sailed in any of the events in question.
 
By valid complaint I mean a properly lodged protest, not a kangaroo court on an internet forum.
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Posts: 1459 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 13 at 11:45pm
The fact that no-one protested doesn't stop it being cheating....

You'd have to have seen this wings to make a protest....

You'd have to have known the Merlin Class Rules....

The Franken Bosun was just a little obvious.....

If someone was "trialling" something in the winter they were (ignoring durability) looking for an advantage....therefore thay had an expectation that there was one....if it lay outside class rules then they were cheating

Simples

Whether that cheating was condoned or endorsed is another matter....but it was still cheating.
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Posts: 3011 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 13 at 12:19am
Maybe it would be good to have an agreement that 'slightly out of class' boats could race, not be eligible for the main prize, but have a placing recorded and a sub-category prize.
PY events should be open to any reasonable boat, which may be outside of any class association.
Yachts manage to race well enough when most of them have no class rules, just  a handicap.
Where would we be without people trialling new stuff?
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Posts: 3011 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 13 at 12:20am
Originally posted by Paramedic

Originally posted by sargesail

No it was always cheating and the SJ just exposed it.
 
No, Sailjuice made people on the internet care about it. I have yet to see a valid complaint from someone who actually sailed in any of the events in question.
 
By valid complaint I mean a properly lodged protest, not a kangaroo court on an internet forum.

+1
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 13 at 7:38am
Originally posted by Paramedic

In fact the winter events used to be a hotbed of testing new kit out before the new season. New sails, differant shape foils, differant masts etc etc.

Agreed, but I don't remember people in any of the classes I've been involved in testing stuff that was out of class without informing the RO. Not officially measured yet but "intended-to-measure-and-if-it-doesn't-it-will-go-back-to-the-manufacturer" is quite a different kettle of fish. Yes, of course you used the winter events to tune up the new stuff ready for next season, but I don't recall this fascination for stuff that's out of class. Perhaps that's the boats I sail though.

Originally posted by RS400atC

Maybe it would be good to have an agreement that 'slightly out of class' boats could race,

No need. All that is needed is to inform the Race Office beforehand, gain their agreement and let them issue a different handicap if they wish.

Edited by JimC - 20 Jan 13 at 7:41am
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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Posts: 641 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 13 at 8:04am
Originally posted by robin34024

despite being in no way involved, if the class association had given a dispensation for the trial set,  then essentially, aren't they are class legal..?

The fact that you need a dispensation implies that they're not legal. If they complied with class rules, they wouldn't need a dispensation. 
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Posts: 929 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 13 at 8:54am
Originally posted by sargesail

The fact that no-one protested doesn't stop it being cheating....

You'd have to have seen this wings to make a protest....

You'd have to have known the Merlin Class Rules....

 
Doesnt the fact that noone else in either of the fleets in question have said anything about it tell you something? I cannot believe that altered 420 foils would have made it through any event without protest unless thay had permission from the class association to trial them
 
A quick google indicates N1 foils are producing a new design rudder for the 420, but I can't find a photo. Using my powers of deduction it's not an unreasonable assumption to make that these are the rudders in question and that we a six page topic arguing over whether a boat should be allowed to use a perfectly legal rudder blade.
 
Certainly a far more reasonable assumtion to make that that they have blatently and cynically cheated and deserve an international ban!


Edited by Paramedic - 20 Jan 13 at 8:54am
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