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The new Laser b**tard
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ex laser View Drop Down
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Posts: 725 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ex laser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The new Laser b**tard
    Posted: 15 Jan 13 at 1:20pm
 re weather helm on lasers.

i know i am a rubbish sailor but; i learnt to sail in a laser and enjoyed sailing it for over ten years and i never got to grips with weather helm with it when it was windy. ( and in that time i did vote for the change to a larger rudder Smile)

i have not had this problem with any of the boats i have had since ( lightning, supernova and british moth.)

a small change to the rudder would make a big change to the feel of the boat and make it nicer to sail.




Edited by ex laser - 15 Jan 13 at 1:21pm
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 13 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by tick

I have advocated Byte C2 type Laser conversion for years......but no one listens.....


The problem with that is that it will immediately obsolete all the current boats out there. Plus as the Laser is an Olympic class the ISAF are not going to allow that kind of revolutionary change to the boat even if the class was willing to develop a completely new rig.

I do wonder how many people here who comment on threads like this actually have a decent amount of experience of the Laser? The boat has critical mass and you are likely to find them at pretty much any club in the country.

I don't find that the weather helm is an issue. Sure you have to keep the boat FLAT and ensure the sail is trimmed and set correctly and that you are sitting in the correct place. The rudder is heavy...very heavy compared to other boats but it does give a good feel (the Blaze rudder was so light and devoid of feel it was near impossible to get a feel for what was going on with it).

As for the 8.1 I think they have made/sold around 400 or so rigs (maybe more). The thing with the 8.1 is that most people who have bought it did so to give them a cheap, competitive boat on handicap (that is certainly why I bought mine). Then when there is class racing I chuck the standard rig up and go play tactics. The 8.1 has never been a class for an open circuit. Sure Rooster could do more to market it. they support the nationals very well each year and you get a lot of people who hire rigs (for something like £15 for the weekend) and come out and play. It makes it fun (I am sure Fraggle would agree).

As for those who go on about redrilling the rudder etc.. Yes you COULD do this but it immediately puts your boat out of class which affects any resale value. There is a strict angle that you are not allowed to go beyond (and yes a lot of boats are likely to be wildly out and need tweaking to get the optimal, mine was when I bought it).

Just my 2p as always.....
Paul
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SUGmeister View Drop Down
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Posts: 265 		Post Options Post Options   Quote SUGmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 13 at 12:27pm
Did not the Rooster 8.1 come with instructions on how to redrill the hole in the rudder to allow a vertical leading edge? A 50p fix to sort one of the laser's enduring problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 13 at 7:54am
That'll be rudder balance rather than weather helm.
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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 13 at 7:35am
Originally posted by GarethT

Originally posted by getafix

Be sure to get a 'group deal' on a new rudder blade and stock assembly to replace the <mega weather helm> shocker that is there now Wink
 
There is a fix for that already.
 
Just set your sail up properly and keep the boat flat.
 
Wink


true, true but if you've ever sailed a laser where the rudder blade has been modified a little (!!) so that the leading edge is more vertical, it makes an unbelievable difference across wind ranges and through out maneuvers etc..
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GrahamRC View Drop Down
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Posts: 11 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GrahamRC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 13 at 11:31pm
I agree with Peter about getting pleasure from sailing an imperfect boat well...whilst I am certainly not sailing my 300 competitively on the sea in biggish wind and waves, bearing away, completing the run and gybing onto the beat without capsizing puts a grin on my face (the reaches aren't so much of a problem)...probably says more about my stubborn nature though :-)

Edited by GrahamRC - 14 Jan 13 at 11:33pm
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PeterG View Drop Down
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Posts: 822 		Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 13 at 11:24am
A decent fix surely shouldn't rely on sailing ability?

I'm not really sure why not?

While I do really enjoy the Contender's well balanced steering after sailing the Laser, I don't sail the Contender, or enjoy sailing it, because it's easier to sail - it isn't.

And when I sail the Laser (I sail both about equally mostly) I do enjoy learning to do it better, a large part of which has been getting better over the years (too many really) at keeping it flat upwind - part of the enjoyment is learning to do it well.

I know that everyone here has different views about exactly what they are looking for in a boat, and for some the aim may be thrills and spills with little skill required, but surely none of us are sailing because it's easy, or are not taking any pleasure in learning the skills required?

Like any other boat the Laser has it's pluses and minuses, but the solution is surely not to argue for changing what is by any measure an incredibly successful class, and is the backbone of class racing in most clubs. If you don't like the boat, the rudder, the rig, or whatever there's really no shortage of alternatives to choose from. 

In the meantime the vast numbers who sail Lasers at a staggering range of abilities can continue to sail them and perhaps continue to improve their ability at keeping the b**tard flat?
Peter
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Telltale View Drop Down
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Posts: 169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Telltale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 13 at 9:04pm
Well if it's going to be a "illegitimate child" then can't you cut the corners off as well !!! Gybing bliss is only 45 degrees away.  Thumbs Up
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Posts: 116 		Post Options Post Options   Quote robin34024 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 13 at 8:22pm
Love the idea :D ive always thought that someone should set up a new laser class association where you can have any sail provided its within certain measurement boundaries, meaning replica sails are allowed, any 'laser' hull providing it measures the same as actual lasers and comes up to a minimum weight, and any spars. also freedom on controls, daggerboard, and any rudder can be used providing it was not winged. would make for an intresting class. sort of an open one design, where the relatively good parts of the laser (the hull...) can be used and you couuld put on any other kit you wanted which would be significantly cheaper and much longer lasting, as well as somewhat better to sail.
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 13 at 7:33pm
There is no way the performance will be the same across the wind range, so you might as well look to either make it faster for a similar weight of helm, or better for lighter or heavier helms.
Given how few Rooster 8.1's you see, I don't think there is much appetite.
The Rooster maybe does not go nearly far enough, but it's a pretty cheap step in the right direction.
A new rig is going to cost what, £2000 with a carbon mast and reasonable sail?
Which still leaves a crude old boom etc.
For that sort of money, you can buy quite a choice of more modern singlehander.

The only way it could happen would be either a huge number of people get behind it, or it gets handed down from on high, which the various Laser companies won't do. I can't see the CA making it happen.
Maybe ISAF could make it happen in a scenario like the Women's Skiff trials?
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