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Quick PY Question

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Rockhopper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rockhopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Quick PY Question
    Posted: 12 Jan 13 at 12:56pm
For me they worked out the handicap that i had won the race in against one of our very good youth sailors (won the nssa laser radial class) in a laser radial also on that day i was on the shirt tails of a very good 600 sailor so well up on time on him that is how i was working it out on the water it was only when i got ashore that they had worked out the result
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 13 at 1:15pm
Look, you have to accept it can't be done, but what can be done is to set a mean guideline for an optimum condition for a given boat/course and even if and when you did, the sailor variable will be way beyond anyones ability to quantify.

You also have to have a median standard point, wether you've tried it and failed or not, you are failing now, it can't be logical for someone like Wing Wang to willingly enter three different events and get given three different handicaps, within a space of three weeks, nothing you are going to be able to concoct is going to explain or justify the logic of that to me, never mind an inexperienced newcomer.

You've had it explained to you that no matter how many statistics you manage to garner the margin of error will never be close enough, so all you can resort to is scientific facts, log and measure the boats, set the handicap, give it say five years to settle, then that is it, no further change unless there is a material alteration of the craft.

The way you are working now, you are chasing so many variables, totally beyond your control with no clear reference point one to another, boats that were historically similar are now drawing further apart for no particularly good reason (Blaze/Phantom) (Laser/Supernova) the market is busying itself trying to use you for it's own wicked ends and buggering it up for all of us as a result, so you need to act and come down hard now whilst you still have some credibility left imv.

Because out here in La La land the whole thing is a silly joke and all your hard work risks being the butt of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rockhopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 13 at 1:18pm
At the end of the day its the sailor that the handicap as the better sailor you are the better you go
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 13 at 1:23pm
Lets just accept that just like the py system with GRF you are never going to win.

Edited by maxibuddah - 12 Jan 13 at 1:24pm
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 13 at 1:25pm
The more the numbers are changed locally, the less people will respect them.

Sailing off the national numbers, we accept the results as reasonably fair, subject to the vagaries of wind, weather and other stuff beyond our control.
Once they are influenced by known individuals on the sailing committee, people question them a lot more and start mentioning that they would have won if Mr X hadn't changed the numbers. Or 'I'm not going back to xyzSC's regatta, they don't give us a fair number'. That's not healthy.


Edited by RS400atC - 12 Jan 13 at 1:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 13 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by RS400atC


The more the numbers are changed locally, the less people will respect them.Sailing off the national numbers, we accept the results as reasonably fair, subject to the vagaries of wind, weather and other stuff beyond our control.Once they are influenced by known individuals on the sailing committee, people question them a lot more and start mentioning that they would have won if Mr X hadn't changed the numbers. Or 'I'm not going back to xyzSC's regatta, they don't give us a fair number'. That's not healthy.



This
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tick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 13 at 3:17pm
This is all very boring but.....at our jolly little club the only real grumble we ever had was at an average Phantom sailor doing well in light wind on the old handicap. I did moan a bit at sailing the cast iron Solo off 1150 (same as a modern one) when the lightnings had 1154, but since I am such crap anyway it made no difference. The way some of you are going on a casual observer would think that there was money in it.

At least however forumites are being nasty to each other again, so that must be a good thing.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 13 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

The more the numbers are changed locally, the less people will respect them.

Sailing off the national numbers, we accept the results as reasonably fair, subject to the vagaries of wind, weather and other stuff beyond our control.
Once they are influenced by known individuals on the sailing committee, people question them a lot more and start mentioning that they would have won if Mr X hadn't changed the numbers. Or 'I'm not going back to xyzSC's regatta, they don't give us a fair number'. That's not healthy.
 
I agree that local numbers are less trustworthy. Too many, often sub-conscious agendas and not enough results to actually be meaningful. Nicely illustrated by that fact that within a year of buying my Phantom(the first Phantom in the club) the PY was reduced.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 13 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by tick

This is all very boring but.....at our jolly little club the only real grumble we ever had was at an average Phantom sailor doing well in light wind on the old handicap. I did moan a bit at sailing the cast iron Solo off 1150 (same as a modern one) when the lightnings had 1154, but since I am such crap anyway it made no difference. The way some of you are going on a casual observer would think that there was money in it.

At least however forumites are being nasty to each other again, so that must be a good thing.


The question of how to treat boats which are not as competitive as possible within the class rules is a whole new can of worms. Should you get an age allowance for a slow solid GRP hull? Should I get an allowance because I don't buy new sails as often as others? Should all the old Lasers be allowed to raise the PY of a brand new one?

There is money in it.
Not directly for winning, but if people feel the need to change boat to do well, that costs money.
If someone 'invests' £10k in a new boat then has his PY shifted unfairly is it reasonable for him to be upset?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 13 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

The more the numbers are changed locally, the less I will respect them.

Sailing off the national numbers, I accept the results as reasonably fair, subject to the vagaries of wind, weather and other stuff beyond my control.
Once they are influenced by known individuals on the sailing committee, I question them a lot more and start mentioning that I would have won if Mr X hadn't changed the numbers. Or 'I'm not going back to xyzSC's regatta, they don't give me a fair number'. That's not healthy.



I've corrected you post LOL.

Speak for yourself.
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